Three years later, Paul and Sherry reunite for what was meant to be a follow-up career-focused interview. Instead, it immediately turns into a conversation between two like-minded humans, celebrating the beauty in life’s simplest moments. The following projects/people were mentioned in this video
First Interview with Paul
Cecelia, I couldn’t put it more accurately than that, so I borrowed the quote. It certainly is a blessing that words and feelings are meant to be shared. After all, we wouldn’t be witnessing some of the most beautiful writing TV has experienced. Whether the words are lifted directly from Diana Gabaldon’s pen or new ones formed from the bones, Outlander has levelled up in a big way. My husband and I conversed about this. Many series lose steam as they wind down; it feels like Outlander is growing more into itself. Evolving, growing. It’s following the path of a well-lived life. I think the reactions in the fandom to that shines a light on society. Those who evolve go through tough times, experiencing missteps along the way. We have those in our life that choose only to focus on those things, not see the value carried. Yet, if we decide not to cater to those refusing to see any good, then we, too, lose ourselves. Outlander, I believe, has never lost itself. It may have slipped a track or two, but they always managed to find their way back to the centre – having gained something every time. That is a testament to the people involved. It is a reflection of their growth.
The acting has always been top-tier that viewers get lost in the story. That acting also has been cultivated in an environment of support and care. We can tell by authentic interactions of the cast when behind the scenes and at events. The writing and direction of *chefs kiss* and, seriously, the visual effects are second to none. That’s why so many critical Coras get twisted into pretzels when they notice something not reflecting perfection. I try my best not to look at the comments on any social media post because of people and their right to their opinion, as that seems to get muddled by being shitty to their fellow humans.
It is one of the things people have learned about me. I have never been one to tear the show to shreds, even if it is something that doesn’t resonate with me or triggers deep feelings. I actively refrain from participating in those discussions where I feel I can. My mindset is that Outlander is my entertainment, and if I chose to focus on the things I didn’t enjoy, I would be focusing on the wrong thing. Our brains and bodies function a helluva lot better when we focus on the joy…that’s not fluff…that’s neuroscience and biology.
I was almost finished my introspection on episode 3 when I watched episode 4. I couldn’t deny the common threads that were woven, it made sense for me to compile the two.
Many people saw the theme of episode 3 as “home”. Where it went down another path for me, I don’t think we can truly feel at home unless we feel safe there. Safety means many things to many people, as we saw in “Death Be Not Proud” and as we moved to “A Most Uncomfortable Woman.” The women, in that episode – were the safety and, ultimately, home.
Roger and Brianna made their way back to Scotland. Home called them. Roger’s childhood home first and then Brianna’s ancestral one. The play between the characters shows their growth, not only as individuals but also a couple. When Roger’s joking with Bree about burning down the house, she laughs with him and leads with understanding and love. Back in the early days everything would be taken with negative intent and chaos would ensue. Now it seems they do the mature and kind thing and assume positive intent, which creates a balance of compassion.
Bree has a box full of letters from her parents, 200 years old. I would have torn through them like a kid denied sugar, but Bree, she wants to extend that feeling of safety. Her parents, in her heart and soul, remain alive as long as she has this connection. Feeling as if they will disappear into the ether… um…bad choice of words there…if she ravages every letter right away. The repeated grief that Brianna goes through is difficult to watch, yet it makes me think of how grief must have helped shape her as a human. Her mother was experiencing great grief while creating Brianna. These things matter in our life whether we understand them or not.
Brianna exerts her intelligence, grit and confidence in who she is to become a safety inspector. I love the irony. The interview and Brianna’s disregard for what is supposed to be – is not considered. She refuses, she does not feel safe in that submissive role, and those who have their own insecurity about her ability – well – they get uncomfortable, and frankly, that is a good thing.
Roger feeling like he was letting her down because he wasn’t the breadwinner came from a core belief that needed a kick in the ass. The way they navigated it…no… how Bree stepped into her power with compassion for her husband was beautiful. She didn’t lash out and get angry that these insecurities bubbled up. What she chose to do was face them and detract them with love and facts. Brianna became the safety to complete their home. Both nurturing and pragmatic. Hmmm, sounds a lot like someone we’ve known a while.
Safety on the ridge was destroyed with a dumbass and a strike of a match. With their house gone, it sets the Frasers onto a new course. The beautiful thing about Jamie and Claire is they have an intense security – as long as they are together. An incredible balance of love, support and genuine respect. They have proven they will sleep in the woods and feel at home together, simply because they have a sanctuary. That sanctuary is one another. This also transmits the same feelings of refuge to those around them. Their bond, their steadfastness and their commitment draw others into their circle.
It is telling, for it also does repel some. We can always see that their solidness threatens those without substance or integrity. (read BJR, The Shitstains- um, the Brown brothers, just to name a few) It is a valuable lesson for us all. If people are living in their personal joy and harmony as a consequence, we are offended by that…that is our mirror that we need to look in to see the cracks. Those cracks are not made by the people we hate seeing happy or doing good. They come from within, buried deep but accessible.
Claire and Jamie, no matter what they lose or which turn their life might take, find their safety in one another. As wonderful and as beautiful as it is…it’s pretty hyper-dependent. The couple has spoken numerous times about their deaths, leaving a feeling of bereavement in the air. If we know anything about Outlander, oh, and we do… foreshadowing like this…so subtle but I smell it like a hound on a mission.
Tom popped back up most unexpectedly. Claire’s facial reaction to that kiss of death is something I could live on for the rest of my days. It makes me belly laugh with the underlying feeling of “Tom…your idea of what women should be subjected to is buuuuullllshite!” The facial expression was a first-rate way to break down the scene and what had been happening with Tom. Something that we may have missed, but was apparent in Tom’s love for Claire, was she made him feel intact. Which is a form of security that he was lacking. His rage and anger at loving women who challenged him seemed to have faded to acceptance. It’s regrettable that he didn’t clue in much earlier to give that feeling to his children. That is what happens in life, though; lessons come later when we are ready to face our own pain. Then, and only then, can we try to repair.
Though the kiss didn’t affect Claire in a way she felt lost to her autonomy, she did feel pulled out of her connection with Jamie…which as we know…creates that feeling of uncertainty. The beauty of their relationship is, she was able to repair that quickly. It took reconnection with Jamie in the way of discussion and then, doing what Jamie and Claire do. Love one another, completely.
Two people lost their home. The Bug’s. First they were asked to leave their literal home, due to the deception that occurred over the French gold. Then, when Mrs. Bug was accidentally shot with an arrow via Ian’s bow…Arch Bug lost his home again and any semblance of safety.
The destructive thing about feeling completely untethered to safety means we are in danger and sometimes, we are a danger. Arch Bug went from mild mannered man about the Ridge to unhinged and focused on making Ian pay for his wife’s death. We see this in our society every day. It is very much because people don’t feel safe and their home – holds none for them. Their anger and their inability to cope with difficult emotions makes them lose touch with themselves and others. Often causing everyone around them distress.
I felt bad for Arch and Ian both. That is another thing society has warped our collective vision on. That there must be a bad guy and a good guy. When in reality, most times, bad guys are made into what they are because of the lack of love, support and guidance that they desperately need as a human beings to survive. Yes, Ian did kill Mrs Bug. Any one of us had suffered the loss of a loved one, it wouldn’t come easy to accept it was just an accident. We, of course, have all the empathy in the world for him, but as soon as Arch threatened to take away someone he loved as revenge, there was no more compassion. Even though everything in his life would point in that direction with such a turn being had. We don’t have to like, agree or condone payback to understand why people feel that way. Accepting that there can be two, what appear to be opposing views that we think are both right or wrong at the same time.
Our world is not black and white even if it can be predictable.
Ian’s fear of Mr Bug following through pursues him into the next episode. And like magic, so does meeting another uncomfortable woman. Ian’s regard and deep love for his Aunty Claire seem to have more to do with how she makes him and others feel. Maybe uncomfortable, though, that discomfort very often brings on learning something about ourselves or others. Opens us to newness and growth as a human. Rachel Hunter may be a Quaker, but she does not shrink nor tremble, and we can see this is what two men, William and Ian, find incredibly attractive. Let us add that it takes a certain kind of partner to love someone that challenges them in such an innate way. We are socialised to believe being uncomfortable is bad and must be avoided when veritably, facing this kind of discomfort is necessary for our improvement of self.
What is the point of this life if we don’t seek to break through the things that hold us back from being happy and finding our true home…within ourselves.
I hope you are safely at home, until next time,
Sherry
That is the thing about feelings though? Isn’t it? We don’t always expect them, they can tap us on the shoulder and smack us in the face, when they are so visceral, they really pack a wallop. They are supposed to. That is what I am going to focus on this time…emotions. Not because this episode made *me* feel so many but due to how our Outlander family was expressing them…or not.
The scene we open with is cataclysmic. I assure you; Malva is going to get her own blog, she deserves it. Claires face was a perfect representation of the horror and disgust most of us would be feeling…(some of us…more than others) against the depravity of Alan Christie’s characters admissions.
Those who have never experienced trauma like this, first, I am so glad you haven’t. Coming back from it is a long and gruelling process. All of that trauma, until it is processed in a healthy way, stays stored as a warning in our subconscious, long after the danger has passed and it grows with us. Causing a variety of mental challenges and physical illness.
Let me swing back to how we experience the emotion of episode two. It is intense, resistant, and consuming but the most important thing that Outlander showed us was – the ones who were able to take a deep breath and move to the next place – FELT the emotion. It is important that we saw this and even more important than we implement it in our own lives.
The *community* that we choose in the healing of conflict/trauma of any kind is a vital piece of the puzzle. There is no repair or resolution in doing the emotional work on our own, if we try, it leaves us lacking and often, lost. Like Fergus, last season…the longer he isolated himself with his sorrow and shame, the worse his mental state became…the moment he allowed someone to console him…repair began.
The moments we needed the most consolation watching Outlander during THPOE were plentiful. It started straight off the top. Hearing and seeing the terror that was Malva’s life was brutal yet, as someone who experienced childhood sexual assault, this show once again highlighted the inner world of the victim not the act itself. This is meaningful, for those who suffered at the hands of another. It says “We see you.” That is likely why those who haven’t faced the healing or those who have no idea what it is like to go through something like that, are always so angered by the presence of sexual assault in this show. It is a way to ignore that it happens far more frequently than we want to face. It is in these ways, with shows like this that help give victims a voice beyond their own. “We aren’t going to gloss over your experience for the comfort of those who don’t want to see the reality of your world.”
I shed those tears in empathy and particularly gratitude.
We moved straight into hope filled tears, didn’t we? Brianna giving birth to wee Mandy was incredibly portrayed. I am so glad to see the truth of childbirth depicted. It’s not about the comfort of anyone but the Mamma, midwives know this but modern (I use the term loosely) medical practices have shifted to focus on efficiency and the comfort of those in attendance. Backward af. The tears we shared during that moment would depend on our own life experiences. A portion will have cried because they have never had the experience portrayed on screen, others cried because they have and they can no longer hold that child and those who are brought back to a moment or something they desire or miss. There will be a number who have no idea why it impacted them, those secrets are locked deep in their subconscious. One day, perhaps be unlocked with conscious intention.
When we see Jamie whispering to wee Mandy in the barn…this is another emotional moment. We feel for Jamie, that he missed doing this with his own daughter, those emotions stir something that is longing for that connection, in us. Feeling those emotions is necessary. The scene changes to Claire, also connecting with Mandy and then, we see it. Something is wrong with the baby causing fear and worry to bubble up. This is something most of us can identify with. Worry about a loved one? Feeling helpless because we are not all doing and or all knowing. The expectation we place on ourselves and others becomes unreachable due to our fear.
We have those moments in time, that come to life…both the things we long for and those we fear. The meeting between Brianna and William was surely one of those. Each character bringing with them something personal and private. William, as much as he adores the only father he has ever known is itching to grow into his own person. Brianna, likely believing she would never meet her brother face to face, searched his face. It harkened back to the “can’t you tell?” line she used when meeting Jamie. Everyone believing it’s best to supress the knowledge that would surely bring overwhelming emotions from William finding out his bloodline. Lord John, the consummate pragmatist, knows the goal is to keep up the pretence of the 9th Earl of Ellesmere. We often believe we are doing something for the good of another, yet, it’s the very thing that harms them the most. Another note on how we can never know someone’s inner world unless they share it with us.
The scene between long time best friends, Jamie and LJG was intense and intimate. Can I say how brilliantly these two men held the space for one another? Showing us that love and sadness come in all shapes, sizes and gender. There was one thing I heard across the fandom and it was “I wish they had hugged!” Yes…that is the repair we would love to get in on, at this time here are two men stretched FAR beyond what their era usually allows. Sharing their regard for one another, helping and ultimately protecting one another. That, to these men…was a hug. It didn’t supply the feel-good hormones a real hug does, but it certainly allowed them to feel what it is to be cared for. It is an important thing, love, no matter who you share it with.
The fireflies and Disneyland introduced us to the kind of emotion we reserve for those closest to us but perhaps should look further afield for connections like this. Jamie didn’t get to form any memories of his daughter as a little girl. All he has are moments like this, sharing stories of the way life was for her. Bree didn’t just tell Jamie about the things they had in Disneyland, she explained how it made her feel. The emotion and the magic. It is why Jamie asked if his time was disappointing. It makes a great deal of sense to presume this after hearing the delight and wonder in Bree’s recapturing of the childhood she recalled. He had only her account to go on, so hearing her tell him “You are magical to me.” This let him know, those feelings of warmth, comfort and happiness, she had for him, now, and would always. Just as she has those perfect childhood moments, her life since meeting him has been enriched. The knowing of such things, brings more love and happiness.
It makes me believe even more in the human capacity to accept such gifts. Opening ourselves not only to share the things we feel but to hear, accept and feel what others are saying to us.
We have dealt with many goodbyes on Outlander. I will say, this was the mother of all goodbyes. When I say mother, I mean it. If it were not for a mother’s love, this vehemence of love, protection and determination, the emotion we witnessed simply wouldn’t exist. Claire, knows who she is, and she is not a doctor or mother or wife as much as she is a human doing the very best she can. She understands her place in the world and because of that confidence and ability, she is able to make those difficult choices. Knowing telling Bree about Mandy’s heart condition and that someone in the future could fix it, but not her, not now…was selfless. Not something everyone would do. Some mothers would rather hold onto their control and try to manipulate the situation for their benefit, to avoid more hurt in their soul. It is when we see Brianna, following in her mother’s shoes that brings us to our knees. There are many parents who talk about how hard parenting children is, and yes, it can be trying, yet there are few who speak about parenting adults. They often still expect you to fix the things that you know are not in your control while wanting with everything you are to be sure they are happy. Though Brianna is now a mother, she is also Claire’s daughter, that attachment never goes away for a mother. It may change to a more secure and understood attachment, if we are lucky. It is having the ability to see that our adult children are their own person, with their own experiences and life while still being their safe space to come back to for love and support.
The thing about our mothers though, whether we like it or not they created us. Literally from nothing, to a living human person. It isn’t only what they ate and drank that made us who we are. It was their hopes, dreams, worries and stress. All of those pieces of them are interwoven into our neurology and genetics. Even considering Brianna is 200 years away, she carries her mother within her cells.
The moment where Claire is searching for comfort was powerful. What is so important about this scene is she was searching for connection. With Jamie and Claire, that connection often is shown in the form of sexual intimacy. What we saw this time, was so much more real and raw. There was a life/love lesson in this moment. The connection Claire needed was repair. As much as Bree is a part of her mother, having Bree changed Claire. It changes all of us, on a cellular level. As we are creating this whole new human, our blood, our bones and ligaments and most importantly, our brain changes. When it comes to saying goodbye, we feel this physically and emotionally. The best way to heal from hurt like this is with love. For ourselves, for those around us. Crying is our body’s autonomic reaction to emotional pain, doing that alone, leaves us feeling isolated and bereft. What Jamie did was exactly what all of us need, someone to open their arms, tell us to feel all those feelings. We shouldn’t stuff them down or ignore them because they take root in our bodies, feeling them is the only way we feel whole. Our emotions that go unprocessed or processed in an unhealthy way…always come back to haunt us.
I used to watch Faith if I needed a cry – well – Episode 2 of Season 7 has taken over that spot. The catharsis of a well-placed sobfest is highly underrated.
I am going to end this now, and deal with the tragic ending of “The Happiest Place on Earth” next time. Maybe.
SoSo much love to you all, Feel your feels,
Sherry
Outlander season 7 open hit me like a ROCK. Be it a quartz one, the one that is known for transparency and clarity. I am always pleased to see the Outlander writers weaving themes throughout an episode. This one was loud in many regards, but we also had the subtle whispers but the golden vein through it all was …sacrifice.
Sorry, I saw that GIF and I had to use it. Just laugh, get it out.
There is a quote, “Sacrifice is greater than Love”. The passage suggests that the act of sacrifice holds more significance or value than love. I would argue that one cannot and likely not sacrifice anything if it were not FOR love. It is either love of someone else or love of self. I don’t mean the societal bullshit of loving yourself being selfish. I mean, when we truly love ourselves, something modern society may say, but when we do, the resentment and backlash are strong. When we love ourselves, we do so wholly and freely. We accept ourselves for who we are, where and who we came from and understand that our perceived flaws are what make us human, not make us unlovable or bad. When we truly love ourselves, we show ourselves compassion, empathy and kindness. When we make it to that place, and for many, that journey is long, gut-wrenching and exhausting, yet, when we make it there, it enlightens us to the truth. Our love of self allows us a depth beyond measure to love and have compassion for others. More than we thought we did before. That is to say, we know that each one of us started with thoughts, core beliefs and even falsehoods bestowed upon us earlier than we can physically or logically recall, and if we are not afforded the same advantages or opportunities, we may never see beyond the things instilled in us so early on.
Those who love themselves don’t judge others for perceived flaws or what our society calls failure. This is a love without excessive ego but with a true understanding of what ego is, which is consciously healthy and humble. Knowing we are not *all-knowing* and every day can learn and grow comes from having done such growing.
Very few individuals in this world have not experienced some type of trauma – this is especially true for our imaginary friends in the world of Outlander. The poor buggers can’t catch a break to catch their breath. We, in 2023, are lucky. There is now the thing called neuroscience, so we know how trauma truly affects our minds and bodies and how to heal with the right tools. The tools for our Outlander crew are a bit rusty and decrepit, but damn, it makes for good TV!
The first sacrifice we see being made in the episode is straight off. The Fraser’s sacrificing their peace of mind to their fear. The opening with Claire on the gallows, looking up to see Richard “DICK” Brown, shows us that her terror is leading her thoughts. Jamie, having lost Claire again, is on the hunt, fiercely focused on nothing else but locating that woman. Which means he and Ian both are sacrificing their own safety and the wellbeing of those who count on them. Sidenote: Brianna really should invent a location device to hook her Mom up with.
Next, Claire sacrifices what little coin she has for some booze. SHOCKER! It’s always worth it when you are in a dank jail cell. Claire really shouldn’t go too long without… withdrawal can be a nightmare! We do our best to cope.
Roger nearly sacrifices his wife’s good will toward him by wanting to help Wendigo. This is a fantastic example of two people who have solid, understandable and both equally correct standing on a subject. It’s this foolish idea that only one person can be right in a situation and one always has to lose. That simply isn’t the way life is, though so many of us refuse to understand that another person’s perspective may be just a valid and strong. The true deciding factor, I believe is Roger understanding that the cost to Brianna was too great. Though they both held trauma that was shaping their opinions on this subject, it seemed that Roger knew that he still could do something, without taking the chance that it might be the wrong thing. Prayer, over setting the man free. Knowing that Brianna would experience another trauma if she were to know this man that did nothing while her mother was brutally raped, repeatedly went free. Of course, Brianna connected to that as she too suffered a sexual assault while bystanders did nothing. To know Roger, let that man go, regardless of his intent, strikes a part of her that hasn’t yet healed. It would be like having an old scare torn open.
For those who are book readers know, in Outlander land – no good deed goes unpunished.
We would be remiss if we did not look at the sacrifice of Tom Christie. This show has taken this man…made us hate him, kinda like him, hate him again and then…recognize his damage, and have empathy for him. I truly believe this was more about Mark Lewis-Jones‘ portrayal of this character than the writing…though one can’t really be had without the other. Mark Lewis-Jones, elevated that character., providing a dimension to him that I was unwilling to grant him while I read the books. I believe this represents us how our subconscious can form little walls in our inner world, we accept only what feels safe to us and reject the rest. Mark Lewis-Jones extended the character of Tom Christie by providing us with *his* inner world. It shows the power of connection and if we are willing to be open to others personal, deepest insecurities. Allowing us to know we are all fighting an internal battle of what we were unable to control in our development to the now, where we do have the control.
The level of grace and dignity he showed, due to his love for this woman that he could never have, was equal to Jamie’s. The difference, I believe, is Jamie knows he deserves Claire; they are one and the same…connected. He is acutely aware that he has earned her love in return. Where in the eyes of Tom, he is getting a grip on that piousness after meeting and falling in love with Claire. It seems he has began to understand, in bits, that is likely what has created him ending up alone. I feel like Tom wants this act to be his absolution, along with, of course, being sure Claire lives. Sacrificing one’s life for another is by far the ultimate sacrifice. Those who make it miss one important detail, though. The person we sacrifice ourselves for will need to live with that weight. Knowing they are the reason someone chose death rather than the knowledge of spending a life without them.
There was a life sacrificed, as far as we know, at the end of this episode. Bad, bad Richard Brown, baddest dude in the whole damn town… If you didn’t go back and sing that, our brains are very different. be grateful, this one is full of chaos not everyone can handle.
Back to ole Dicky boy…who seemingly was sacrificed for the greater good of humanity. That is a very basic representation, however. Jamie, noted by the dude who shat his pantaloons when he was told, “Yeah, not worried about your men, bruv…my nephew…the guy who is super pissed at you along with his Cherokee friends are tying up those loose ends.”, is indeed a good man.
Another ridiculous social narrative that to be a good person you must only do good things is ludicrous. Especially if that good thing is for a horrible human with no redeeming qualities. That is not to say I think we should go around killing people who are assholes and filled with hate, though we really need to stop tolerating them. Turning the other cheek and being the bigger person, what the hell is that? We already are the bigger person when someone else is a hate filled, rage charged fool. When they refuse to meet us where we are, if we don’t want them to believe silence in consent, in context, then we meet them where they are, with the language they understand. Their language is usually loud and only ends when they succumb.
The issue with people who mistreat others, harm them or instigate harm to be done believe our silence is not only consent, it’s encouragement. “Go ahead. Spread your vileness all over me, then my home – then work – then town – then country- then continent – then…globe.” It’s permission. They need to be denied. Denied a space and a platform. We do that not only by ignoring the individual but by actively speaking up against their unacceptable behaviour until they stop and or apologise for doing it. It will then be up to us to allow them back into our lives with forgiveness or choose our own path in life, with the lesson and the memories in store.
Jamie seems to have chosen the sacrifice of Dick’s life over the hundreds or thousands he has and will harm. Of course, Jamie didn’t have the benefit of suggesting to Dick he was a narcissistic sociopath that needs intense cognitive and developmental therapy. In the 1700s, the thing was…kill ém! We, as humanity, have come a long way. Unfortunately, society takes far longer to catch up and get on board.
The road that Dick paved with manipulation, deceit and a false sense of revenge… has appeared to be ended. Jamie believes he can live with this particular sacrifice as it most certainly did save his family and who knows how many other families from a danger that was unpredictable and had a false sense of calm about him. These are the most incipit threats as they bide their time and pounce when the most damage can be incurred. Society would do well to pay more attention to how/when, and why evil starts, and where it came from and rather than eradicate the behaviours after they have started. Changing the course before it begins. That is when LOVE, SUPPORT and UNDERSTANDING come into the picture again. Rather than have us create humans filled with shame, hatred and vitriol – we create them to be confident and kind. The results would be revolutionary.
We, fans, will always watch Outlander with one eye firmly fixed on ourselves.
It is not a conscious behaviour unless we analyse our reactions to the events and characters. I, personally, have gone through a sizable and transformative shift in my life since watching Season 6. I only participate in open and positive dialogue concerning the show. That isn’t copium; that is a choice to not allow something I view for enjoyable entertainment (created by my fellow humans with complex inner lives) to become something that I resent or bring me any level of annoyance. In my circle, that only serves to bring me unwarranted stress. I will however, speak my boundaries and call out those hurting others simply for their *right to an opinion*. As a dear friend pointed out to me years ago, we can say what we mean without being mean. I wish that was a lesson I took to heart earlier in my life.
I have been away from the fandom for a beat… only participating with the local @ABOotlanders group, hyperPT on IG and the blogs/and the SIssues Outlander podcast .(featuring my sister and I. Currently we have seasons 1-5 and will be producing 6-7 soonish. All the other stuff I put aside for my own well-being. There is only one of me; after all, I have recently learned I need to take care of her first, or she runs out of gas/gets lost or lays on the side of a road in the foetal position. And those things suck, so I care for myself. I can’t express how that makes it easier to be there for those we love and the things we love.
What kind of trip will episode 2 take us on? Follow me to get notified when I write about it.
Sherry – that ABOotlander/beaver person.
What we see and what we show, both are choices we make. Some of the time they are conscious but very often our subconscious compels the choice for us. Personal bias, life experience and past judgements skew our perception of what we see. It becomes a dance of our closely guarded secrets along with the desire to influence, determining what we expose.
What we ‘think’ we see isn’t always the truth.
This has been both beautifully subtle throughout the first half of Season 6 of Outlander and ‘smash you in your whole damn face’ obvious, at the same time.
It screams of what is going on in the world as well as my journey over the last few years. I found myself drawn to sit and write; this could be a doozy. You may want to grab a snack and cuppa of something strong.
Dram or twelve…you know the deal.
Our favourite drama sucked us in with a 1753 flashback of Jamie first arrived at Ardsmuir Prison. The wary man simply wanted to bide his time of misery. Having lost everything that meant anything to him, he was entirely over it. He had played every game, he was done like dirt. Us Outlander fans love them a
duuurty Jamie. Not dirty enough for some fans but I digress.
You missed me…I know you did.
Ferrrrgus (he makes me purr, I can’t help myself). What was happening with Fergus is something that we may see in ourselves, and loved ones and I promise, this is something we will project onto others fully when our personal lens is clouded.
Once proud, capable, and steadfast, his confidence in his ability to protect his family was shattered. It didn’t only shift or crack. For Fergus, it was not only his wife he failed to protect, it was his children, living and unborn…it was also his mother. Fergus may not use maternal language when referring to her, nevertheless, she has that motherly connection with him. If we go back to the season finale and look at César’s performance, if we weren’t so sucked into the brilliance of the episode, we would have seen his despair unfolding. Fergus was fragmenting more every moment we saw him.
César Domboy’s performance at the end of season 5 was so subtle, it’s only when we go back after seeing his performance in season 6, we can truly appreciate it’s nuance. The coming storm cloud hanging over him in the shot of the family *chefs kiss*.
What was happening with Fergus on the inside, didn’t stay there like many other characters this season. Feeling useless and worth nothing, his mission became to ensure everyone else saw him the same way. This is another means by which we punish ourselves when we believe we are a failure. It isn’t enough to
punish ourselves, we create chaos around us to have others validate how shitty we are. It becomes a perpetual cycle of self-flagellation. In turn, others will wind up telling us how horrible we are because of it. Cycle completed.
There was a fatal flaw in Fergus’s logic. He was loved completely. No one blamed him for the things he blamed himself for. It was how Fergus was externalizing his self-hatred that grew sinister. This happens to many of us. When we are aware of a ‘tender spot’ subconsciously we will begin to create our story. He knew Marsali’s history of violence due to an alcoholic father. What better way to poison her against him? It would surely complete his pursuit of isolation and bring about his wife hating him. Then she would surely admit the attack on her, Henri-Christian’s disability was his fault. Claire’s kidnapping, beating
and rapes, were all his fault. Once she hated him, as she hated her alcoholic father, she would admit it all. All these things can and do happen in our subconscious minds.
Fergus wasn’t wrong. Marsali did see her father in this messy and drunk Fergus. What she also knew was that version of Fergus wasn’t the man she married, loved or who he truly was deep down. She was giving him the grace to heal but she wasn’t going to tolerate his shittiness around her or their family any longer.
And there ya go…You just got Marsalified.
Marsali loves him, and setting a boundary with him proved that more than allowing him to continue the self-destructive behaviour. She Marsali’d him straight upside the head. There is only so much a woman who has recently given birth to a disabled child, has other children to raise and a household to deal with will be emotionally and physically able to tolerate. She did precisely what she needed to do. Protect herself. It wasn’t easy, but at that moment, she stopped a cycle of generational trauma in her life. There would be no more tolerating a man putting their trauma responses above the family unit. This is something that we all can sit with for a while.
The things that make us go hmmmm…ahhh…wait wha?!
Suicide is never an easy subject to talk about. It should make us feel uncomfortable. It’s heartbreaking we could get to a place where we feel the answer is to end the pain we feel. Treating the subject with anything less than empathy and compassion would be callous. The Outlander writers handled Fergus’s suicide attempt as genuinely and touching as possible.
Fergus lost sight of the man he was. He accomplished seeing himself as the nothing he felt, through others’ eyes. Even had convinced himself into wanting his wife to find a ‘whole’ man by twisting Marsali’s words to validate the action he was about to take. When someone chooses to die in this manner it isn’t done without a great deal of thought – yet – it is often done on impulse. That is why having Jamie catch him in the act and being able to articulate the logic of it isn’t what he does… it’s who he IS, that matters. It struck home. Fergus realized then the person he was drowning with booze was the *who* he was referring to. The man he was punishing for not being there was the one they needed. That was the Fergus that was emerging. Fergus was able to see the man his father was speaking about reflected in his eyes. He felt that man still existed within him and that is why he held on.
Thank all the little children and Jamie’s sliding down hills in kilts.
We can take many lessons from Fergus’s story into our own lives. Hurt people…hurt people. When we think someone is doing horrible things to us and we react in anger, maybe, just maybe they are hurting and are punishing themselves – inviting you to do the same. It could be you are doing that to yourself, right now.
Speaking of hurt ass people…whoooaaa. The whole Crusty Christie family has a “there is something WRONG with you people” vibe.
I am going to put Jessica Reynolds on BLAST. As Malva, the 5’2” actress manages to circumvent all obstacles in her way, read…men of ANY size. Mark Lewis Jones, nearly 5’10” and Richard Rankin at 6 ft, this girl didn’t cause them to shrink at her looks of defiance or threats. She grew over them, the measure of her nefarious strength washed upon them and engulfs each moment.
As fans, we are shook’th! As we bring our judgement of Malva to moments that would seem inconsequential, they become disconcerting. It was bad enough she was creeping on Jamie and Claire having barn sex. The directors’ skilful choice in showing her hike herself up on her tippy toes caused fandom-wide goosebumps. It not only elevated Malva’s view of the twosome – it took the viewer to
another level of shudderhood.
I am sure by the time the season wraps I will have a TOP TEN BUTTCHEEKCLENCHING MALVA’SPRESSIONS. Easy. I might not even be able to narrow it down to 10. It might have to be a desk calendar. I look forward to it either way. She WILL get her own blog post. Eventually.
This girl glares, gazes, starts fires…
What makes the Christies fascinating in the lens of what we see/what is shown/ how we perceive them is that we know very little of their personal experiences. We are left to assumptions. Oh and we ASS- U – ME, don’t we?
Tom, for instance. He likes to believe he is this holier than thou dude. When, in fact, he feels the same feels any other human does, instead of feeling them, processing them, and moving forward he chooses to suppress/deny them. Moreover, he swiftly takes out his frustration for those feelings, out on his daughter. That somehow is the punishment he looks for. Let’s make it clear, Tom Christie is the poster boy for projection. Tom absurdly thinks he can stop Malva from becoming the kind of woman that tempts a pure-minded/hearted man such as himself *eye-roll*. He, being the one who obviously could not read a few words in a book without feeling impulses and urges.
Imagine though? Using ones intelligence to say “These feelings are natural, not evil. It is what I do with
the feelings that will make me a good or bad person.” This guy denies the feelings and is off trying to beat them out of someone else. Pretty damn evil, bro. How about accepting the feelings, expressing those feelings with love and consent…good? So, good.
That is why Claire seems an enigma to ole Tom. He was under the impression she was good. Then, he read this smut…and he thought of her. That’s right. He didn’t think better of her, he thought OF her. That is why he was fuming. His body and his mind are taken over by the sensations evoked by the words. He was baffled by his thoughts of this woman and the reaction of his body. But nooooo, not HIS fault. So he literally turns to lashing the one female he believes he controls, his go-to. You know, how about Tom take responsibility for his own emotes? No? Too real? I get it. 
I am going to take a moment to speak on this as I feel it is pertinent to my view. I have always felt, even reading the books, that there is an unspoken truth to sexual violence when it comes to those who want to overpower others. Some speak of “too much rape” – I, too, am of the mind that there IS too much rape.
In real life. Rape takes place every day, more than any of us will ever see on TV. That is why it is uncomfortable, triggering and upsetting. We do more ranting about rape that happens on TV and in books than we do about rape that happens in real life. I’ve heard it said it is ridiculous that every member of a family would be raped. It isn’t. Generational trauma is a very real thing, trauma response and reaction are conduits for this exact thing. It not only happens in one family, it happens in generations of families until it’s finally revealed, discussed openly and healed. For me, It’s about honesty in storytelling. Sexual violence would be no more a plot device than a fire, death, traumatic birth, murder, betrayal, or any other tragedy that occurs when storytellers are being truthful within the scope of a dramatic narrative.
In the case of Claire’s kidnapping, she is taken by men who want to see her shredded, torn to the last vestige of nothingness. A man who thinks nothing of raping his own wife would feel no remorse. As Lionel showed, he deemed he was within his rights to take her, teach her a lesson and give her away. As I saw things, it wouldn’t be sincere if that wasn’t a part of the kidnapping tale. There is something about suspending belief and fantasy about time travel, big houses but not that. Not that kind of base human behaviour of evil. This is how people, women, in particular, have been torn down and controlled for centuries. Do I hate it? Of course. It’s happened to me…it’s reprehensible. I recognize the need to share
these moments with care, as Outlander has done through the years. It is why I was grateful to see they raised the stakes in Claire’s ongoing trauma from the many rapes. This shouldn’t have gone away quietly.
I am fascinated by Claire this season. I was curious as to how they would handle her PTSD in addition to her resumed sexual relationship with Jamie. My triggered heart was soothed in so many ways. The way both Caitríona and Sam are playing their characters this season is filled with nuance and almost a bubble
wrap of care. Claire isn’t sharing all of her pain with Jamie because she can’t. She isn’t capable of doing that. There is something about trauma that many people don’t understand. Claire even voiced it very well last season as she went through a list of her many traumas, stating they never broke her. The reality is, they all still live within her. She never would have been able to rattle them off with such passion if they didn’t. These complex traumas build up in us and when something massive comes along, we don’t have any more room to hold them. It isn’t that we aren’t strong enough or we have been strong too long. We need to heal.
Everything.
It’s not easy for anyone. I love that is being represented.
We all want to scream and shake her by the shoulders “TELL JAMIE ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL”, this is us speaking from a place of observation. We aren’t considering her suffering. The fear, the pain, the confusion, and the need to fix it herself. This isn’t Claire’s pride, this is Claire’s wound. It’s still wide
open and healing. For her to say it out loud for someone to hear, especially the people she loves, the ones that count on her…she would fully become the wound in everyone’s eyes, right now, it’s controlled. Within her.
She shows everyone the Claire she needs them to see. Bree sees pieces of herself in her mother, not because Claire is showing her but because Bree recognises the behaviour she once projected. Jamie isn’t seeing what is wrong, not because he is too preoccupied but because he doesn’t recognise it. He also needs Claire to be ok. Claire blows sunshine up his kilt and he takes it. It is what we do for the people we love the most, on both sides of the coin.
When we face tough times and we know our partners have a lot going on…you know, like building communities, facing down an unavoidable war and being the king of men ‘n shit. The last thing we want to do is take their eye off the ball with us falling apart since we know they will drop it to take care of us.
We don’t tell them because A) we are too proud B) don’t think we deserve it C) don’t believe it’s as important as all the other stuff. Claire, amazing as she is, is not a singular being in her trauma. What does make her unique is…she has ether. Truly a magic pill of sorts. I’m not sure it was altogether an accident
that she perfected it at this time. Claire was in search of something not only to add to her surgery but something, anything that could assist in turning off an inner voice. The one that repeatedly haunts her and takes her back to the centre of her trauma.
We are reminded that Claire’s trauma doesn’t only lay at the clearing with Lionel and his sorry excuse for men. It lies in the many times she had been sexually assaulted. Being triggered at Flora’s party by the mention of the King was a profound bit of writing. This rape was often overlooked. Some argue it isn’t rape because she gave consent. The truth of the matter is consent without a resounding yes, is not consent. Consent that is manipulated, bargained for, coerced or bought is not consent. Observationally, someone may SEE it as consent. When the person EXPERIENCING the act feels they are being raped, which is what matters. It is not just happening to their body, it is happening to their brain, their gut, and their heart. It is rewiring their system. It’s why people who get sexually assaulted vomit afterwards, it’s a brain/gut connect reaction. It is why they feel a need to get clean, scrub the feeling OUT of them. 
For those who do not understand being triggered, that can be the same sensation that takes over the body. It brings them to the same place of fear and panic. These are the moments that Claire reaches for her escape. It isn’t because she is weak or selfish. It is because she is in the middle of that clearing, the middle of King Louis’ bed, bent over Black Jacks desk and and and…ether is her quickest way out…for now.
When we see others in distress like this, we may have a low tolerance for their inability to cope. We may let our high expectations combined with our desire for them to be ‘better than that’ create
a narrative that they are worse or somehow less than. The truth is, our observation doesn’t match their experience. They are filled with panic, fear and chaos and desperate to stop it. Addicts don’t become addicts due to personality flaws. We should ask ourselves what someone is trying to escape from not judge them for wanting to escape a debilitating pain.
I love this quote so much.
I observed some conversations referencing it would be better if the writers had made her a “drunk” along with Fergus. I found that theory interesting given that Claire’s remaining present, for the most part. Her need is to turn out the lights, to reset, a few seconds here or there. She drinks on the regular as it is. She wouldn’t be able to keep utter intoxication from anyone, for their safety or hers. The ether has been discreet enough to resist if she needs to and she has shown she does.
What many viewers fail to appreciate is we genuinely see things through the lens of our own experiences. It sometimes gets us stuck. Some see Jamie and Claire in a bad place right now because Claire is struggling and Jamie seems clueless. Truth being, Claire wants him unaware of this one thing. She is communicating with him, sharing laughter and connecting sexually. Those encounters are not
merely for show, not only to make Jamie feel like everything is peachy in pound town. They are also there for Claire’s healing. She needs that connection with the man she loves. Her distress doesn’t always involve him but she knows how he can help her and she is incredibly adept and utilizing his skills. Telling him everything would cause him to treat her like a victim, and for Claire to heal with Jamie, she can not feel like that. Not yet.
Jamie isn’t being obtuse or neglectful. He is picking up everything that Claire is putting down for him. Exactly how she wants/needs him to. The thing that makes it different is, it’s not complete. She leaves out the information that she is still processing, trying to work through, the stuff that she knows he can’t help her with.
I wish we would grant her that…hell…I wish we would grant ourselves that. We ALL do it. We hold onto shit that we are going through. WHEN do we end up sharing it? A) When we finally realize we CAN’T fix
it alone – after we’ve tried everything on our own. B) We’ve hit bottom and have no choice. C) We fixed it and the scare has passed. D) Processing has been accomplished, we require love, support, and family to commence cuddle warfare.
Bring it in…it’s time!
I do hope we see the reason we get upset when a character like Claire becomes all too human rarely is about her. It is almost always about us. That’s why we are so completely invested, it is all about the emotional connection we create. We have made it personal. Why wouldn’t we? Sure…it’s a TV show, it is a TV show that we write blogs about, do podcasts on, tweet about daily, create friendships, travel to meet others, meme to death, meet the cast, support their charities with our hard-earned dollar bills and absolutely LOVE. It is no wonder at all that we get so wrapped up in the characters and how they are portrayed.
The idea of having Outlander suit the wants and desires of fans quickly becomes impractical when reality strikes that “we” as viewers are in the millions, around the world. We made this beautiful choice to be seen, heard and engage with one another. I am infinitely grateful the majority do with kindness, respect and thoughtfulness. I am also grateful that I get to be a part of a group that chooses to voice their opinions and thoughts. We are small in comparison to the viewership but damn it is fun!
I was right…this WAS a doozy. I hope you are still awake.
Much love,
Sherry AKA The Beav
Spring is finally in the air for this Canadian and I figured, there is no better way for the LOVELANDER project to bloom into the season than with the couple who defied the dastardly Brown family. They rode off into the sunrise-ish together. (We will have to wait and see if we get anymore of their saga later on.)
I do these interviews to give you the people behind the characters. Their careers rarely start with Outlander and they most definitely will not end with it. This fandom of ours has a way of following the lives of cast members so it is my hope #TheLOVELANDERProject helps do that. I am going to start with Jon Tarcy, aka Isaiah Morton, as we were introduced to his character first.
The Isaiah Morton/Alicia Brown story was one I wasn’t sure we were going to get to see on screen but I was delighted, as were many other fans that these characters were introduced.
I admit ‘the Isaiah’ I had perceived from the books wasn’t quite as dashing or balsy as the Isaiah who showed up on screen but I am not complaining. I give all the credit to that discrepancy to the man playing him, Jon Tarcy.
At 6’1″ and a stage presence that has landed him roles such as Rolf in the live TV version of The Sound of Music in 2015; in 2017, Jon ruled the stage with the Royal Shakespeare Company in the productions of Titus Andronicus playing Alarbus, Octavius in Julius Caesar and also tackling Demetrius in Antony and Cleopatra.
Jon grew up along the River Thames in a borough of London called Kingston-Upon-Thames,. He has a close relationship with his younger sister, Emma and brought her into his world of make believe very early.
Many actors had a flare for performance at a young age, is the same true for you? Like a lot of kids, I was performing weekly shows in the living room for my family when I was about 4 or 5 – magic shows were a particular favourite, with my sister always being recruited to play the magician’s assistant. That led on to me getting involved in as much drama as I possibly could at school, but it wasn’t until I was in a teenager that I started to think this was something I could do as a career, and my family have been hugely supportive ever since.
It is apparent your talent and their support was a winning combination. As I was looking through your previous achievements, including the ones I already mentioned, you played Tony in West Side Story. You have an incredible singing voice. Hey guys, don’t take my word for it, see for yourself in this video of Jon and Christina Bennington.
That video shows how strong your sing voice is, was that something that has always been a passion? Thank you! Yes, Singing has always been something that I’ve loved to do. I was in a church choir when I was younger singing a lot of classical music, but then as I started to perform in school shows I fell in love with Musical Theatre (Playing Marius in Les Misérables and Sweeney in Sweeney Todd were real highlights!). When I was 15 I gained a place at the National Youth Music Theatre which really helped propel me towards singing professionally, and I’ve always looked for opportunities to combine my acting and singing ever since.
Theatre has such a rich history in the UK and you firmly embedded in it. What is it about theatre that you love? Theatre is a great passion of mine and I’ve loved all of the roles I’ve played thus far. I particularly enjoyed my time with the Royal Shakespeare Company – it’s such a fantastic training ground for a young actor and was a huge dream of mine to be part of that company. I’ve also really enjoyed working on the development of new projects, whether that be a new pop musical or adaptation of a novel, it’s always very exciting to be in the rehearsal room in those early stages.
When we are creative people, we tend to gravitate to certain performances or people, do any stand out for you? I think it can be anything or anyone. It can be just as inspiring to go and see an incredible performance in the theatre or on TV, as it can be to go to a gallery or listen to an album. Particular people who I’m currently inspired by are: John Owen Jones, Donald Glover, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, & Mark Duplass.
I obsess over Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Everything she has done, or will do. I seem to do that, obsess. You of course, seem much more laid back in your enjoyment of entertainment.
Fans following you on Instagram will be able to tell you have a love of travel, do you have a top three favourite locations you have visited? Oh that’s a good question. I’m not sure I have a top three, but my most recent adventure (pre-covid) was a trek to see the incredible Mountain Gorillas in Uganda. Something I’ll certainly never forget!
That sounds so majestic and a little bit terrifying. Is there a destination still on your must see list? I’d love to go to Madagascar, but I’m also keen to go to South America….there’s just so many places, I can’t decide! The UK is also a brilliant place to travel, and there are so many places I’m still to tick off my bucket list here.
It’s my understanding the Outlander production was becoming fairly well known to the industry in the UK, had you heard of it before you auditioned? Yes I had, and I’d heard such lovely things about the show & the team so it was really exciting to audition for it. Had you auditioned for any other roles besides Isaiah? No I hadn’t. What was that process like? My agent had organised for me to send in a tape for the role of Isaiah, and I then had a recall in person with the brilliant casting director Suzanne Smith. A few weeks later when I heard I got the part I was absolutely over the moon and couldn’t wait to get started.
Did you read the book at all to get the back story of Isaiah? For a bigamist, he is a pretty decent guy. I mean, the Brown’s weren’t the best choice of ‘second family’ but you can’t win them all. I did, I really enjoyed reading ‘The Fiery Cross’ and it was important for me to read all of that extra detail about the character that Diana Gabaldon describes in her fantastic books.
I admitted your portrayal of Isaiah came off as much stronger than I gave him as a reader of the books. You gave him a certain dignity that I believe bolstered him. How did you prepare? I did quite a lot of work on the accent (I’m not originally from Scotland sadly), and read up on the history of the period that the show is set. How would you describe Isaiah? I would describe Isaiah as a someone who follows his heart, but doesn’t always think first with his head….
Seems to be a “I’m an Outlander character characteristic”. One of the scenes I cheered on your performance was when Isaiah, in essence told Jamie and Roger off. Was it tricky to play that scene when you have only spent brief moments together on screen with Alicia? It really wasn’t hard at all. Anna Burnett who plays Alicia was a joy to work with and we had a lot of fun shooting episode 4.
What were your favourite scenes to shoot? I loved all of the scenes I shot on the show. I guess highlights were, the scene you describe above with Jamie, Roger and Claire, and the night scene where Isaiah pulled a gun on Jamie. I learnt so much performing scenes with all of those actors, and Isaiah’s journey in those scenes was particularly fun to play.
They were equally enjoyable to watch. It’s always fun to see other characters to get one up on the shows lead characters. Were there any other experiences that you felt you learned something new on set? Horse riding was a big one. I hadn’t done that before so was a little nervous, but the brilliant horse team (including Olly, Matt and Leah) up in Scotland trained me up, and I was riding in no time.
When in good hands we are capable of great things! It is pretty sweet when we can learn not only a new skill but an recreational activity while we are getting paid.
What are 3 things you do to relax? Swimming, watching movies and, as of recently in lockdown, playing a lot of chess.
Given your character Isaiah penchant for love and that spring is in the air, would you consider yourself the romantic type? I absolutely am – put me in front of the movies ‘Before Sunrise’ or ‘Before Sunset’ and I’m a total mess.
What would you say the most romantic thing you have done or had done for you was? Now I’m not sure I’ve answered the previous question right, as I can’t think of many sweeping romantic gestures I’ve done. Perhaps I need to plan a few more surprises….
We could all probably do with a few more of those. I would say Isaiah played his cards right when it came to Alicia.
Speaking of Alicia Brown…Anna Burnett had the very tough job of bringing this young lady to life in such a short amount of time. It was her job to first, ingratiate her self to viewers so we would connect to her plight without judging her. As many know, Outlander fans are tough nuts to crack in that respect. Anna then had the task of making us root for Alicia. It was up to her to have us wanting Alicia to escape the misogynist patriarchal Brownsville thumb she was held by and run away with Isaiah. A man who we find out is for all intents and purposes, a bigamist.
Anna, take a bow. Well played.
Anna grew up London and like many young actors her love of the arts started in school. It was the drama department that sparked her interest. She began taking drama classes on the weekends and from there, the auditions came along. The rest is ‘herstory’.
Your first job listed on IMDB is the series Jonathan Creek , the next year you went on to star in The Falling, which is such a fantastic film. Two obviously distinct experiences for you, can you share what those were like? They were both brilliant, but very different. I filmed Jonathan Creek over a few days, but for The Falling a group of us all lived in a house together in the countryside for 4 weeks. The director Carol Morley is an incredible filmmaker, and the cast and crew on The Falling were almost all female, which was hugely inspiring for all of us as young actresses. We would film Sunday to Thursday, and on Fridays I would be back at school trying desperately to catch up with my schoolwork! It was my first experience of spending a long period of time on one job, and I couldn’t have asked for a better one.
You have worked with what I would guess are some inspiring actors (Maxine Peake, Gary Oldman, Kristin Scott Thomas – to name a few), have you taken advice or picked up something you feel has made you better at your craft? I think with every job I’ve done I’ve learnt something new. Just being able to watch these actors do their work has taught me a lot, and there’s so much I’ve picked up from working with such brilliant people. Being kind and keeping a good sense of humour definitely goes a long way, and that’s something that the cast of Outlander does so well!
Since you brought it up *wink*, let’s turn to your Outlander experience. What was that process was like for you? I was really lucky to meet both Suzanne Smith, the casting director, and Jamie Payne, the director, during the audition process for Outlander. Alicia is a character that really wears her heart on her sleeve and doesn’t hold back, so it was liberating to really throw myself into Alicia’s emotional side as well as her complete determination during the audition. That’s what I loved about playing her too, the fact that she’s so open and wild, completely guided by her heart. It was great to read the source material alongside the script to really build a picture for myself of who the Browns were and what Alicia’s place was in their world.
I must say, for the little time Alicia is given, you were able to portray her deep sadness convincingly. You gave Jon (Isaiah) the perfect amount of dedication to not make it overblown or dramatic. I was impressed by your ability to convey your emotions with limited dialogue. Is there a secret to this or are you just that good? *smile* Thank you! I think the secret is working with great actors! With such an intense storyline, it was amazing to work with actors who are so generous and skilled. It always felt like we were working together as a team, and the friendly atmosphere on set really put everyone at ease. I think that made our jobs ten times easier.
Speaking of that, many of the cast on Outlander speak about how easy going everyone is, how it feels like a family on set. That’s completely true! I always think that the lead actors on any project really set the tone for everyone on set, and Caitriona and Sam were constantly upbeat and welcoming to everyone throughout. All of the cast and crew were so easy to work with and I was definitely sad to say goodbye when my filming time was up!
You had intense scenes with Caitriona Balfe, which to your credit, you shone in. I cannot imagine what that would be like, a regular day on the job or super intimidating? Although it was such a big show to be a part of, Caitriona made me feel so welcome and at ease on set. She’s such a fantastic actor, I was really lucky to work alongside her and loved doing our scenes together.
Do you have a most memorable moment from your time on set? I think, apart from all the fun we had, one moment that sticks in my mind was from my last day on set. It was a sunny day (which was rare during filming!!) and we were shooting the scene towards the end of the episode where Alicia and Isaiah escape. All Jon (Isaiah) and I did all morning was sit on this beautiful horse in the sunshine – lush!
We are still living through this pandemic life. I am going to wrap up by asking some fun and fluffy questions that might ignite fans into reading or watching something new.
What was the last book you read? The last book I read is called ‘I Am Not Your Baby Mother’ by Candice Brathwaite. It’s a non-fiction book about being a Black mother in Britain and it was so thought-provoking and moving, I would highly recommend it to everyone. Sounds like a must read. This goes on my reading line-up, for sure.
Many of us have been doing a lot of binge watching. What was the last show that trapped you? The last show I binge watched was a brilliant Australian show called Upright. It’s only short, and once you settle into it, it really takes you along and makes you care so much for the characters.
Tick! Added to my watchlist. Now, what are three shows you think everyone needs to put on their watchlist? And 3 shows everyone has to watch are Succession, Normal People and Euphoria!
AGREED! It’s nice to have the same taste as a young and talented woman. Makes me feel good about myself.
As Outlander fans, we should all continue to thank Suzanne Smith for always casting humans that dive into their roles with all that they are. They take the time to breathe life into them, give them a depth we can be grateful for. Without a strong, vibrant supporting cast building these stories Outlander’s main cast would be stretched too thin.
I want to thank both Jon and Anna for taking time out of their busy lives to join #TheLOVELANDERProject and make our days a little brighter. This fandom is a lucky bunch. We have so many things to keep our thirst quenched this Droughtlander, friends!
I’m doing a WATCH PARTY podcast with my sister. We have released all of Season 1 and Season 2 so far. Every Monday and Thursday we drop another episode. You can find the SIssues Podcast on any of your podcast providers and You Tube. Follow us on IG, FB, Twitter or our website.
Until next time, Sher xo
If you have missed #TheLOVELANDERProject interviews, here are the links. Edition 1 Vida/Blancklanderz Edition 2 Erin/Three if By Space CastEdition 3 Vincent/Supporting Artist Edition 4 Tracy/Outcandour Cast Edition 5 Nell Hudson/Laoghaire Cast Edition 6 A Quickie w Kikki Fleming/ Lesley Edition 7 Koko/Outlandish Vancouver Cast Edition 8 Paul Gorman/Josiah and Kezzie Beardsley Edition 9 Chas/ Outlandish Scotland Edition 10 Barry Waldo/ Writer, Producer & husband of Jon Gary Steele Outlander Production Designer Cast Edition 10 Stephen Walters/Angus Mhor
ABOotlander LOve – Previous Interviews – Julia LeBlanc/VideoQueen Summer & Ginger from Outlander Podcast Cast Dr.Joe Abernathy/Wil Johnson Cast Adrienne-Marie/Suzette Beth Wesson/@PixieTwit Connie Verzak@ConnieBV Karmen @OutLandAnatomy Jane @RRankinFans Cast Sera-Lys McArthur /Johiehon Cast Carmen Moore /Wahkatiiosta Cast KikkiFleming/ Lesley
It was a no brainer for me to ask Courtney to be my next guest with The LOVELANDER Project. I have a crush on her. She’s smart, she’s got dimples for days and her blue eyes…you can swim in ’em ! Holding a conversation with her is easy and exciting. She is the one who is used to doing the interviewing, so I knew she was going to be hard to pin down, she was but I got her! Here she is, Courtney Williams from Outlander BTS.
Thank you, Courtney for giving me your time and being a part of this passion project of mine. Sher, I think you do great interviews, and I love the spirit of your LOVELANDER Project. As you know, I’m usually the one asking the questions, so it took me a bit to get in the right headspace to be the interviewee. Thank you for inviting me.
You are literally the “Behind The Scenes” of Outlander for thousands. They rarely get a true look at you. Tell me what makes Courtney – Courtney. Alrighty, I’m mostly of Irish and Italian descent with some other stuff mixed in. I’m from Texas, the youngest of 3, two older brothers – all close in age. I was a tomboy, liked to be outside most of the time, (still do), and was a little toughie. I left home at 19, and the adventure began. I’ve lived all over the Washington DC area, Madrid, San Francisco, and the Denver area. Today, I’m a wife and mom, I love my family, being with my horse, beach time, reef swimming, and nature hikes/runs.
What do you think it was from your world that helped you become the producer of OutlanderBTS? The pieces of what it takes to produce my blog have always been in me. I’ve always been a writer. Journaling, writing down thoughts and observations. As a child, I kept diaries, and later, before iPhone (notes), it would be on napkins and receipts, ticket stubs, magazines, etc., whatever was around. I love to travel. When I was little, we would take family car trips, leaving before dawn; Dad says the boys would go right back to sleep in the back of our station wagon, but my little bobble head would be wide eyed, looking out the windows, pacifier plugged in. I traveled in Europe for two months in my 20’s, with a Eurail pass and a youth hostel card, and I was absolutely in my element. I became interested in photography and photojournalism as a kid. Dad had an old manual 35 mm camera that I taught myself how to use. I liked photographing nature and people – Candids. Faces. I would write stories about trips and experiences with photos I’d taken, and gift those to people. And doing interviews- ha, as a little kid, I used to interview my friends using my tape recorder with a little microphone!
I remember doing the same thing with my friends, as a military brat we moved around and I wish I could have held on to the tapes to have at hand now. The relationship with your Dad sounds so strong..and stands out to me. I still have some of those tapes, they are hilarious. Yes, I love my dad. I started running with Dad when I was 13 – he’d wake me up before the sun, and we’d go run under the stars. I loved the fresh morning air, the aliveness of my senses in the dark, the silent, one-on-one time with Dad. The only sound was our feet on the pavement; we were in a quiet, rhythmic bubble. At the finish, the sun would be coming up, we would speak, and the spell would be broken. We would laugh and joke around, and the day would’ve started – I felt strong and happy. He’s 88 now, and still a lot of fun. I get my irreverence from him..
It truly is a extraordinary thing to have a close relationship with a father, you are blessed and the way you speak of him, I can see the influence on you and know it is appreciated by those in your world. Tell me more about what makes you tick. Hmm, well, I like to learn, I like to understand why, I like people watching, and I like making connections. I speak Spanish fluently – I graduated from the U. of Maryland, and lived in Spain 6 months, doing a semester at University of Madrid. I’ve worked since the age of 15 doing lots of different things, from waitress to corporate wellness manager, to software project manager, to guest ranch wrangler, and lots of other things. I’m an entrepreneur at heart, and have done lots of fun, interesting entrepreneurial things over my lifetime, my blog being the latest. I’ve traveled a lot, to Canada, all over the US, Mexico (repeatedly), Europe (repeatedly), Australia, Japan, and Africa. I like long decadent meals with people I love, or at least interesting people *smile*. I love the beach, and I love water – oceans, seas, lakes, rivers, puddles – any water. And I like riding my electric bike around town.
All of us flying through this Outlander universe have a story of how we were pulled into it’s orbit. What is yours?I loved the books; my mom introduced them to me in 2006, just after my 2nd baby was born. In 2014, while checking out at my local grocery store, I noticed the TV Guide, with Sam and Cait in character as Jamie and Claire on the cover. I thought, “That’s gonna stink, I’m not watching it.” You know how the movie’s never as good as the book? Well, these are my favorite books, so I didn’t want to spoil them with a crappily done TV show.
My kiddos were 8 and 11, and one day I was home alone with spare time (which didn’t happen much then). I plopped down on the couch and started flipping through channels, also rare, as I’m not a big TV watcher. I came across Episode 101, Sassenach, for free. So, I thought, what the hell. As I watched, I noticed how well done everything was -the casting, sets, costumes, Scotland, Jamie, the authenticity of it, the Gaelic, etc. I became really excited. I found Starz and watched Episode 102, Castle Leoch, soon after that. A defining moment for me with the show, was when Annette Badland walked out of Castle Leoch as Mrs. Fitz. I thought, damn, they’ve nailed it again. I was worried Mrs. Fitz would be played by Cameron Diaz in a cleavage dress (it is Hollywood, ya know). I knew that if they’d be willing to get Mrs. Fitz right, the rest of the show would be fantastic. I was sold, hook, line, and sinker.
I love that you got sucked in that way. I had no idea. Tell me more… I saw somewhere, maybe Facebook? That Sam and Cait would be doing a Twitter Q&A, so I joined Twitter, and followed Diana, Sam, Cait, Terry Dresbach (Seasons 1-4 Costume Designer, wife of Ron D. Moore), Gary ( Seasons 1-5 Production Designer), et al., and started meeting other fans from all over the world. I’d never been in a fandom before, so this was all new to me. I read and watched interviews and enjoyed discussing the show and books online. My husband was working internationally at the time, so I arranged to tag along on a trip to London, and then hopped over to Scotland by myself. That was November, 2014; no one in Scotland had even heard of Outlander, the show, only the books. Season 1, Part 2 wasn’t even out yet.
I have a friend in show biz, who got me tickets to the Paleyfest premiere of Ep 109, The Reckoning, in LA, in March of 2015, and then I went to a local event where Diana was speaking and met her for the first time in April of that year. This kind of thing continued, and I wanted a place to write about all the Outlander adventures I was having. I also found the mainstream media coverage at that time to be unfulfilling, and I knew from discussions that others felt the same way. I was in conversation on Twitter about that with several people, among them, Terry, and she said (or wrote) to me: “Do something better.” And, I thought, OK, yeah, why not?
That is as good a reason as any! My wee blog, Outlander Behind The Scenes, went live on April 6, 2016. Funny story, the night it went live, my little family was crowded around me in bed, watching Google Analytics for the site on my laptop (thrilling!). There were two people on the site, and one left, and my then 10-year-old said, “Don’t worry Mommy, Grammy probably just had to go to bed.”*laugh*
With the support of my husband, my web designer, my Patrons, and lots of other people, the blog has continued to grow ever since. It really has been a fabulous journey.
You are such a natural when working with cast in panels and interviews, there is an ease and intelligence that people are drawn to. Can you contribute this to something in particular? I prepare a lot for my interviews and panels, but in the moment, I let the conversation have space to go where it does, naturally. I’m genuinely interested in the people I’m interviewing and what they have to say (as a fan first). I’ve been around celebrities from a young age, enough to know they’re just people like the rest of us, and usually appreciate being treated that way. I also have some stage experience – I’ve acted and danced in a couple of theatrical dance companies. In one show, my character became tempted by and discovered drugs, partied her ass off, became addicted, overdosed and then died. Good thing it was all a dream…. I’ve also performed with an equestrian dance company, on horseback. So, maybe my (limited) performance experience helps me relate somewhat to those I’m interviewing.
My crush just keeps getting bigger n bigger. If I had more time I would start a Courtney fan club.Part of your work on BTS is breaking down the episodes. Can you give me a synopsis of how the show has done so far, for those who may not be 100% familiar with your thoughts. Season 1 exceeded my expectations, in all ways. Season 2 exceeded my expectations, in some ways. I absolutely love the first half of Season 3, and then… there was a phase I didn’t prefer between Episode 307 and Episode 501. *smile* No, there are some good episodes and moments in the second half of Season 3 and in Season 4, but I did feel things went off the rails a little during the transition from Ron D. Moore to Matt B. Roberts and Toni Graphia. To be fair, most of the original writing team left at that same time, and those are the two seasons they did back to back with no break in between (S3 and S4), so it was a tall order for first time showrunners. Maril Davis and Matt Roberts were at the helm for Season 5, Sam and Cait came on as producers, the writing team for that season was much stronger, and for me, that season put them right back in the flow. I enjoy creative adaptations, I do like the characters to stay in character, especially Jamie and Claire.
You not only attend Outlander events, you also moderate events with cast members. How did that come about for you? I started interviewing cast and crew members for my blog, and I chose to do video. Most of the Outlander folks are in the UK, so I started using Google Hangouts back in 2016. When I started my episode discussion group with the wonderful Karmen Schmidt, Antoinette Simmons, and Catherine Toomer, I got more into moderating – hahahahaha. Hosting a lively discussion between four women is different than a one-on-one interview(and harder to edit)! I was invited to be a panelist for Denver Comic Con in 2018 and 2019, by Desirre Andrews (A Dram of Outlander), so I had that experience. My first live interviews were with Sam and Caitriona for the Season 3 premiere on the red carpet in NYC in 2017. That came together at the last minute, and was a sink or swim moment. In 2019, I’d applied for The BTS Lasses to do a fan panel at Wizard World NOLA, and I was contacted by Wizard World to help design content for Sam’s panel, which I did. During those calls, they ended up asking me to host, which I did. That was live in front of 1,500+ people. After covid hit, in April of 2020, Wizard World approached me about moderating a live streamed Zoom panel with Season 1-3 cast, which was great fun. I think I just started doing the work, saying “yes,” even when I was thinking, “whaaaa?,” and doors would open. I’d say yes again, and gradually I built a body of work, which then helps you get more work.
With so many events and experiences you have been a part of, I am sure its hard to narrow it down to your favourites but do you want to give it a shot?
OK, let’s see. Meeting Diana for the first time.
Watching Episode 109, The Reckoning, as it premiered in front of a live audience. Going to my first performance at the Royal Lyceum theater in Edinburgh, meeting Bill Paterson (Ned Gowan).
Dinner with Graham McTacvish in Cologne, Germany.
Seeing Terry’s Season 2 costumes live in the windows at Macy’s in NYC with my mom.
Photographing Cait and Sam for the first time at that same event (Cait is stunningly beautiful).
Meeting and getting my first hug from Gary Lewis, and meeting all the “guys” early on.
Interviewing Sam and Cait, live, for the first time in NYC and then seeing Ep 301 on the big screen with a live audience
Meeting Gary Steele for the first time, in Glasgow. Seeing Laura Donnelly in The Ferryman with my mom in London. Gillebride MacMillan singing The Woman of Balnain to my mother, acapella, in a large empty room with amazing acoustics, in Linlithgow, Scotland.
Sam’s first MPC Gala at the Kelvingrove in Glasgow with Mom.
A special night out with the BTS Lasses in NYC
All the people I’ve interviewed, but Gary Young (Mr. Willoughby), is a standout.
Standing backstage with Sam, as he watched King Fireman’s tribute to Jamie video for the first time, at Wizard World NOLA, and then interviewing him.
Doing our Wizard World NOLA BTS panel.
And, our fan gathering afterward – seems like a dream now! No masks!
It is lovely to know that it was the BTS chats and moderation with Antoinette, Catherine and Karmen that developed into this wonderful world for you. Those chats do have quite a following in the fandom, what is it, do you think, that draws people to your discussions? Thank you. Based on what people tell me – they like our familiarity with the material, our love for each other, our humor, our ability to discuss intelligently, and disagree civilly, our diversity, and the subject matter expertise of each person. And, we’re fun. We go deep, but we don’t take ourselves too seriously.
All of that is true. I like to add my favourite bits of the episode chats. From my perspective, I view Outlander in a really weird bubble, I always am disagreeing, agreeing, having wtf moments and laughing my face frozen. It’s the ability to know that you are all coming from a place of kindness, respect and love of the product that makes it a great place to hang out, virtually.
You have a great grasp on the content of the show, I am very curious as to what your vision is for the future of it?My hope for the TV show is that they’ll do all 10 seasons. As long as the audience is there, and I believe it’s still growing, and the core team is willing (Matt, Maril, Caitriona and Sam), I think they’ll continue.
Of course, there is no show without Diana’s books…what is your expectation there? … gosh. I get teary just thinking about the story ending. I know it has to, at some point. We’ll get Bees very soon, and then there’s one more book. I don’t want to know the ending until I read it, at the end of that 10th book. I think I’ll have to have Outlander sitting next to me when I finish it, so I can start all over again and not be consumed by my grief! *wink*
So polish off that crystal ball a little more and tell me how you see Outlander playing out. Plot wise? Well, Sam just let us know that the Christies will be in Season 6, and I’m pretty psyched about that. I just finished re-reading ABOSAA – there is so much in that book. It’s the longest one of all (so far). If it’s well done, and I expect it will be, it’ll be great TV (as Antoinette would say) *smile*.
How about the books? Any wishes that way? And as for Bees, I don’t try to guess ahead. I’m a fan first, and I love just discovering everything as it happens. When Bees comes out, I expect I’ll drop everything and devour it, like everyone else, and I look forward to that. I hope Diana figures out an endless loop type situation for Jamie and Claire, so they’re always alive!
That is the dream! Funny, it is what I have been saying the same for years. Great and twisted minds…Speaking of that mind of yours, what are the things you do to relax and escape? I do most of my relaxing offline. I wasn’t able to read for leisure for 2+ years due to a vestibular injury, so I started using audible. I listen and read now, and love both. I take long walks and runs with our dog, Mocha, in nature. I take Epsom salt baths, I drink chamomile and green tea, and I take naps in a sunny window whenever possible. One of my favorite ways to relax, is hang time, hand grazing or grooming our horse.
I find so many of us in the Outlander Universe are like minded so getting referrals from one another is something I love encouraging. How about books, what are your shares? Funnily enough, I’m reading a book recommendation from Laura Donnelly right now – Shuggie Bain, and I’m loving it. I’m always re-reading an Outlander book – I just finished ABOSAA <sigh>. I recommend The Obesity Code, by Jason Fung. This one’s not an easy read, it’s almost written more for doctors, but it’s worthwhile. I gained a lot of weight between 2016 and 2020, due to illness and injury, and this book helped me understand how to lower my insulin levels. How about movies or binge-watchers? Movies I’ve enjoyed lately with my family are “Ocean’s 11,” “Ocean’s 12,” and “Casino Royale.” I’m not a very good binge watcher, but the closest I’ve come lately is “The Crown,” “What’s My Name: Muhammad Ali,” and re-watching all seasons of “Seinfeld,” over many weeks. *SMILE*
This is turning into an awfully long Droughtlander thanks to Covid-19, one I am ok dealing with if it keeps people safe. How are you holding up? Thanks for asking. This has been a challenging year for our family, but also one of tremendous growth and healing. And I agree with you, Sher. Safety, and getting through this as humanely as possible is what’s important.
What have you been doing to stay sane-ish? To stay sane, first, I acknowledge that we are in a unique time, and I try to cut myself and the people around me a break. I go back to the basics, as much as possible. I realize my energy is finite, so I nurture it, and use it for my priorities – my health, my family and loved ones, and my work. Those are my top 3. For me, my health starts with my thoughts. I try to focus on the outcomes I want vs my fears. When I have conflict with someone, I try to work through it consciously, and own my part. I try to practice compassion and forgiveness, and also gratitude. The key word is practice – I’m not always successful, but I don’t beat myself up about it. I get outside and move my body as often as possible. I limit my exposure to news and social media. I have a few reputable sources I go to for updates, and then I take breaks. I avoid going down my habitual mental rabbit holes whenever possible. I work on our home space, continually, because we are always here right now. I’m mindful about what we eat. We started using a local CSA (community supported agriculture), and I have a new love for fresh vegetables. I prioritize my sleep. I cultivate quality time with loved ones, in the house, and afar, and I balance that with alone time. And, I take one day at a time, and give myself permission to rest when I need to. Other than that, we wear masks in public, wash hands, and pretty much stay at home. As my very beloved sister-in-law used to say, “this too shall pass.” I think of those words often.
It is official, my crush has just leveled up. The words you have shared are truth. They are open and kind and I know will help many people find a balance where they may have been falling over. Thank you for them.
Time to give yourself a Tagline, Warning Label and a Theme Song.
OK this one was so hard for me!!!
Tagline: “Smart, fun, and gets it done.” This one was so hard for me! You would not believe how long it took me to come up with that, and it’s just OK.
Warning Label: Spicy when hot
Theme Song: What a Feeling, by Irene Cara
What a feeling is right. This fandom is much more than blogs, podcasts and fan groups. It can be a community of like minded people sharing things they love, bringing laughter, comfort during difficult times and being a family to one another where one may not exist. People like Courtney are at the gooey center of that community. Always a warm, welcoming presence and a place to get great Outlander content. If you didn’t know a lot about the person behind the scenes of Outlander BTS, I think you are the better for it now that you do.
Until next time, stay safe and much love, The Beav SHER
Have you missed Previous editions of – The LOVELANDER Project – Edition 1 Vida/Blancklanderz Edition 2 Erin/Three if By Space CastEdition 3 Vincent/Supporting Artist Edition 4 Tracy/Outcandour CastEdition 5 Nell Hudson/Laoghaire Cast Edition 6 A Quickie w Kikki Fleming/ Lesley Edition 7 Koko/Outlandish Vancouver Cast Edition 8 Paul Gorman/Josiah and Kezzie Beardsley Edition 9 Chas/ Outlandish Scotland Edition 10 Barry Waldo/ Writer, Producer & husband of Jon Gary Steele Outlander Production Designer Cast Edition 10 Stephen Walters/Angus Mhor
ABOotlander LOve – Previous Interviews – Julia LeBlanc/VideoQueen Summer & Ginger from Outlander Podcast CastDr.Joe Abernathy/Wil Johnson CastAdrienne-Marie/Suzette Beth Wesson/@PixieTwit Connie Verzak@ConnieBV Karmen @OutLandAnatomy Jane @RRankinFans CastSera-Lys McArthur /Johiehon CastCarmen Moore /Wahkatiiosta CastKikkiFleming/ Lesley
Like the titles play on words? I promise, it is true.
Every time I send a request, whether it be a current or past cast member, someone in production, close to production or a fan account I always expect them to say no. It’s in my nature to expect nothing, not because I am “suck joy Sherry” but I find this way I will always be thrilled when something good comes from it. Call it handy self-preservation.
I’ve had it in mind to approach Stephen Walters to participate in #TheLOVELANDERProject from the start. He being an original cast member that made us fall in love with Outlander, a part of an ensemble that has become a revolving door for fans.
What held me back? I am going to be honest, intimidated isn’t the right word, I have always had the impression there is something about Mr. Walters that goes…well…beyond. I have watched his career closely since he left Outlander, also digging back for his previous work. I highly recommend you do the same because DAMN. My concern was “Would I be ABLE to interview Stephen Walters? Would I be able to do this man justice?” I suppose, now, you will be the judge of that.
Here he is…as impassioned, authentic and veracious as they come.
You grew up in Merseyside Liverpool, England. What was your childhood like there? I am one of four children. The third of four and so a middle child. I come from a working class background. My parents were both from that generation that never really received what one would deem a “proper education”. From a social and political perspective, it still rankles with me. As a good education should be the God given right of any child. Sadly it’s still not the case. In those days (the 1950’s) young people were expected to go out into the work place and make a living. Mum and Dad made sacrifices for their children. In retrospect it was a poor upbringing on a monetary level but that cliché of ‘but we were happy’ was true for me. My mum particularly was a genuinely spiritual person and I got most of my life philosophy and teaching from her. It’s never left me. My dad was and still is a clown, so it was perfect yin and yang situation. I may not have received inheritance in a typical sense, money, a house, etc. The usual perception of that. However I received something way more valuable than that. A spiritual inheritance that has never left me. There was also an atmosphere of ‘you can do anything’ in our house. I was never not encouraged to be creative, which is so important for any child. It was a tough environment but there was humour and a real community of people. Sadly, that’s lacking more and more nowadays, that sense of helping your fellow neighbour, of being able to turn to someone in times of shortage. I have lovely memories of the mother’s sitting outside on the wall, talking, laughing, putting the world to rights. We were always, as kids, up to mischief, inventing some new game, digging a ditch, swinging in some tree, the estate was like one big playground to me. You could play out and you knew it was safe, everybody knew everybody else. The sense of memory is honestly fond and full up. I feel blessed by my childhood. Sometimes I go back and it’s a shell of what it was. That’s kind of sad to see.
I hear you speak of your childhood and it may not be filled with the fields or beaches of some, it does have have the quality children need. On the surface, it was rough however it was a beautiful nurturing environment. One that obviously encouraged the creativity we have been blessed to witness. When did this performer in you, start showing up? I started to learn guitar at ten years of age. My neighbours the Caulfield’s, were 3 older teenage boys, Kevin, Mark and Chris. They taught me a few chords and allowed me access to their record collection. It’s where my love affair with music and in particular the Beatles started. It really affected me, the sound, the philosophy and the talent. Their story inspired me, in that you could come from a place like Liverpool and ‘do something different’. So the seeds of creative allegiance and creating a better world were formed then.
An interesting aside, I wrote a song about my mother at 17. Sadly she passed with cancer the same year and this same song I sung on stage in New York in 2018. My son was also present. Her spirit, her energy, her memory and her belief in me, was standing right beside me. Sometimes, if your blessed, you have moments in life that ‘you couldn’t write’.
Acting wise, I did the usual nativity at school, progressing from shepherd to Joseph. I remember the buzz of the lights in the church (the play was always performed on the church alter, in the evening). I felt comfortable, at home, escaping into a world of my own imagination. Later, l studied drama at Southport collage and then finally trained at the Bristol old Vic. The latter was tough to get in. There were 15 places in my year and there were thousands of applicants. It was another moment that ‘Mum was watching down on me’. In those days there were educational grants, otherwise there was no way a kid from my background could afford to go. This is no longer the case and in many areas still represents a marginalisation, an exclusion of the working class from the arts. Ironically it never escapes me that I am in ‘a middle class, privileged profession’.
That is something that stands out for someone living it but will often go over the heads of people who haven’t faced it, tell us more, please…Drama school was full of young people with a plan B. They were mostly from families that had money, or a family business, or another option. I had no plan A and even then I was winging it on the drapes of my trousers! *laugh* Acting and music are part of the same spring well of activity, be it poetry, writing stories/scripts or singing. I can’t act in the shower but l always sing! It’s all expression. Sometimes these disciplines have merged on the screen like in a show I did called “Tin Star” or another called “Ragged” for Sky Arts. In my mind I do not separate these expressions. They are simply different branches of the same tree.
I loved you in Tin Star, you were shady af but we will talk about that in a bit. I want to delve a little deeper into how your journey started. You had your first acting job at 16, that’s impressive…Here’s the strange thing. The first job I ever did was a thing called “Ghost Story” for a series “Dramarama” A lad called Gary Brookes and I both knocked on the door of the only agent in Liverpool at the time, called ‘ART’. It was run by national treasure, Ricky Tomlinson. On this particular day, these two snotty nosed kids knocked on the door and there he was. It was the first famous person that I ever saw. We asked ‘were there any acting jobs going’ and by chance there was a show being cast and he sent us along. I got the job whilst still in my final year at school! I was completely blind to the whole situation. I remember ‘Ghost Story‘ coming out on the tv and all the family sat round the television screen to watch. It was another surreal, special moment. With my first ever pay cheque I bought mum a ‘brand new red bike’. I wanted to show my thanks to her. Unfortunately she passed away the next year but gladly she rode it for many miles. I still have that bike.
It does seem like this life was the one that was meant for you, Stephen. The one thing I felt I always had, was good instincts to read a room and people, although I had no formal training to speak of. Long story short, 23 years later, I ended up playing the real Ricky Tomlinson in a biopic about his life on the screen.
Serendipity and synchronicity have always followed me around. The director a guy called, Julian Jarrold, I also went on to work with, in a show with Robson Green called Touching Evil.
That’s incredible when you think of it. I find the way your history webs together fascinating. Not all actors have this ability but you become the characters you portray so thoroughly … often physically morphing into them. Some actors talk about their method, if you have one, can you tell us about it? The method is precisely that. It’s ‘your method’. These things get convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. I have played many accents and different roles, so it’s your job to nail that as best as possible. I think my working class roots, bring me a working attitude, that you are there to do a job. It’s always grounded and informed my approach to the business I am in. More important than this though, is to find ‘the truth of the character’. Without it, the aesthetics mean jack shit. The truth is always something connected to your own life. It helps in order to sympathise with the character, to relate and understand it. That’s why a life outside of what you do is so important. It will feed and seep in to what you do. There is an element of intellectual observation but it has to be married by choices from the heart…from the gut. I also think good acting is brave, it has elements of courage and heart felt desire. Add to that the ‘imagination level’ then somewhere in the mix is your character.
A storyteller at heart, Stephen, there is no doubt…I love that it’s a process and it’s not set in stone. From a learning perspective this always appealed to me. Some actors are gregarious and brilliant, some are quiet and focused. It’s horses for courses really. My old acting teacher, a method teacher from the old school by the name of Rudi Shelley (he was Russian) always told me …”Stephen find out for yourself”. It’s served me well. I ask questions and I probe. There’s also a mystery element to any character, that you should never explain, a private space between you and yourself. Sometimes a brilliant director unlocks a door and the quality of the script always comes into play. There’s nothing worse than fighting an incoming tide. So many elements make up the whole part.
I have to ask about these complex roles. There is always something ‘behind’ the eyes of the characters you play. I guess I like complex roles. Life is complex. People are complex. Situations are complex. It’s all a discovery of those strands. It’s more interesting to play a multi dimensional character. It’s more of a challenge and if your not being challenged, your not developing, growing as a performer. It’s just the way my career has gone, that I tend to play people on the periphery of things, on the outside, just how I like it. I remember my acting teacher saying once “Stephen stop trying to walk in a room like John Wayne because you will never be John Wayne…walk in it using your physicality”. It’s about utilising your strengths, your physicality, your way. Keep it true.
The more we peel back, the more I see how complex you are, this is all making a lot of sense to me. Speaking of complex characters, let’s chat Charles Manson. You became him in the short film, I’m Not Here. I have to say, it was disconcerting to watch as I didn’t connect ‘Stephen’ to the person on screen…at all. What made you want to be a part of that project? Manson was a frustrated artist. A lot of people don’t know that. He was a talented one too. He was from a broken home and was probably destined for a life of crime. His story is one of ‘what if’? Aren’t all our lives and stories? I know people in my own school year died of drug over doses. My brother Brian passed in a similar manner. He was a brilliant artist, a beautiful mind and no less talented than most people l work with. The sad irony of that a that he understood that. He was my greatest supporter and I always feel his presence around. If your really honest, or your really awake, you know life is never that simple. “There but for the grace of God go I”. There’s a lot of wisdom in those gutters. Anyway, back to Manson. Charles was close to a record deal and it nearly happened for him. There’s also people in our industry that but for a break or a chance encounter, could have gone ‘the other way’. Not necessarily to the extremes of Charles Manson but it’s all margins. There is something interesting to investigate there. Plus we demonise people, label the monsters and put them nicely in a box. We were all children once, from the king on the throne to the guy in the doorway. That’s how I feel and see it. It’s my spiritual out look, that does it’s best not to look up to anyone or down on anyone.
The outlook you have shared here is one I hope readers can take and use going forward. I believe it may be a piece of this puzzle our world has lost over time. Many of us are able to grow from each of our experiences, good and heartbreaking. What have you taken from each of your experiences on set, in both those large and small productions from your early days to now? That each experience is different from the last one. People who are good at their job, barring the odd exception, tend to be the best to work with. It’s those with opinions of themselves that are not grounded, that are not really rooted into some kind of reality, that are most difficult to work with. Each role one plays is the roll of a dice, there’s a lottery element to it. I think for me, it was always about trying to create a quality body of work. To not look back, that you are only as good as your last job. It’s only when someone puts a question like that to me, that I think about those things. Lovely that it is to reminisce, it’s always about moving onto something else. Other wise it’s like staring down and admiring the same old shoes! *laugh*
I get that, still, I’m going to get you to check out that rear view mirror for a bit longer *smile*. You worked on a series in Canada, not just Canada but in my province of Alberta. In fact, the small town my uncle lives, High River Alberta is where Tin Star was set. What was your time like here? I was in Calgary for about 8-9 weeks. The Canadians are such polite folk and the place is so ‘clean’. I remember canoe rafting in Banff which was stunning. The clear blue water and the mountains. The place looked like a country and western set. I was mostly with a brilliant actor Ian ‘Pulverston’ Davies and we had digs that shared panoramic views of the city. There are many moments like that when I wish mum and brother Brian (or even Dad) could have had. They paved the way for these things to happen to me. You count the blessings and you never take it for granted. I think if you do, the games up. I’ve see that happen to people. You have to hold on to you and the journey that gets you there.
I remember driving with SatNav (GPS) and getting lost in Alberta too. I remember pulling over on a road to watch a black bear and it’s cubs about 50 metres from myself. I remembered a deer running across my path, as I drove on the road. I loved my character and got to sing/play guitar. In fact the song that plays out the end of episode 3, I wrote. What more can a man ask for?
It sure ticked a lot of boxes, I haven’t even gotten to see a mama bear yet. The song at the end of ‘The Comfort of Strangers’ was hauntingly beautiful. It would be nice to see you not die in a series…I have come to the conclusion, I have seen you die on screen enough.
As much as I loved you as Angus, the role of Thomas Malone in Shetland is my favourite, thus far. Your portrayal of this misunderstood and complicated character made those watching confused and empathetic. It was a wild ride. What attracted you to this character and why do you think others became so invested in his story? It was a gift of a role written by David Kane. Brilliant show and great writing, with fine actors. A rich six episode character arc, full of plot twists and turns. Thomas Malone is a maligned and misunderstood character. Often in episodic stuff, you play the killer, or the killed, or a filler role and there is no real context. No real meat in the bones. Here’s the thing. It’s much much harder, to make an impact with limited screen time. The more screen time you have, it’s just easier. You can allow a character to breathe, to pace it, to take your time. The camera can ‘indulge’ the character more, watch and observe him/her. This series of Shetland explained and expanded upon why this man was so broken. It delved into why someone is the way that they are. That’s what good drama does.
I was gutted by his death, it seemed so…pointless. What are your thoughts on that? I was shocked when I read the final script but here’s the thing. Things happen out of the blue in life and often to people who least deserve it. It was the final gut wrenching blow to the solar plexus. People still come up to me now and mention that moment. Drama has the power to move, to change feelings, to relate and to fascinate.
I recall you mentioning in previous interview that writers can describe a character as in depth as possible, but it is the actor that ultimately brings them to life. In playing Angus there were many things you added that weren’t included in the ‘written description’. It’s more an attitude. A lot of that was complimented with Rupert played by Grant O’Rourke. He’s a big fun energy, and it infused scenes before we played them. That’s how I felt anyway. The superstitious side of Angus, was made up from reading a book about a Scotland in that time period. The humour was something that happened more organically than planned. Anyone who visits Liverpool will tell you that everyone is a comedian. Ken Dodd a famous comedian said the Liverpool audience, is the inky audience that thinks it’s funnier than the comic! *laugh*. So it’s in the genes somewhere I think. The more serious you play a character like Angus, the funnier it can be. No matter how ridiculous the situation may be, if you play it straight, something true will always come through it.
One of my favourite things about Angus was his erratic nature. One-minute laughing and joking, the next raging and wild. Did you formulate a back story for him that would explain why he was the way he was? I think that’s more the invention side to creating a character. Of acting. There are characters like Angus, from way back in the Liverpool memory bank. Unpredictable, keep you on your toes people and you’re not sure what they are going to do next. What’s interesting about that question is this. Is it by design… or is it they simply don’t know what they are going to do next!? *laugh*
You and Grant O’Rourke seemed to have had a chemistry that was natural and easy. It was said by Ron Moore in his podcast it was because you were so good together it was a natural progression to keep moving in that direction. Was this immediate between the both of you? Like, we got something that could be a lot of fun…let’s do this? Grant like I said is funny…’he’ has funny bones. I can be like that but it’s more personal, more specific. He often entertained the troops whilst waiting for long set ups, in between takes and I admire that. I tend to more fade into the background. Like I say, I consciously plugged myself into that. Chemistry is there or it isn’t I guess, it can only be manufactured to a degree. It’s difficult to be objective but l think we did have ‘something together’ on screen. It was a love hate thing. Angus loved Rupert, Rupert hated Angus! *laugh*
That’s hilarious! *laugh* You two definitely had ‘something’ and it was a joy to watch. Who am I kidding, it is STILL a joy to watch. What would you say were your most enjoyable scenes to film on Outlander? I enjoyed the physical things. The fights were a hoot. The sporting games with wooden bats. I remember one particular day, getting carried away and biting this poor stuntman’s ear and it bled. I was in shock and felt so bad and this big cockney guy stands up and says…*wiping the blood away from his ear*…”Don’t worry mate…it’s all in a days pay!”*laugh*
That sounds challenging, for him…*laugh* What would you say were the most challenging for you? The elements were challenging. The huge set ups, waiting around in the mud, the wind and the rain. There was always someone with a funny story, a joke, something to relieve the boredom at times. Roy Ramsay, God bless his soul, was one of the horseman. He had a neck like Mike Tyson and hands the size of a garden shovel. A big, gentle giant. I loved his stories and his strange mad wisdom. Something of Roy, bled itself into Angus somewhere. I’m always looking for a clue, an inspiration, a fact, a spark that may start a fire.
I know fans carry memories of Angus and his antics still. Do you have any particular memories from your time on the Outlander set that you feel you carry with you? Every job has a memory I carry. The people and the place I would say. I was lucky enough to film Shetland so north of the border is ‘in the bones now’. Duncan La Croix (AKA La Crotch) was my first port of call on the job. I just remember we spent months just talking. A lovely soul. Andy Gower was special connection. Scott Kyle, Ronnie Goodwin, all good people. Through the conventions, we sometimes meet up and there’s a commonality, a sense of a shared experience. No matter what you do next, these things cling to the heart in some way.
You have one of the unique experiences of being a part of the cast that created the Outlander universe. Every week more people are discovering this world and in turn, you. Falling in this weird love with this wild character of yours and then being absolutely devastated when he dies. As incredibly sad as Angus’s death was, it was heroic in the same breath. His friendship with Rupert, as humorous and sometimes volatile as it is, at it’s core there was a love for one another. He sustained a blast in order to save his friend, in turn, his own life was taken.
Do you believe that Angus would have done the same thing, had he known the outcome? I think the scene around the camp fire says it all…”what’s yours is mine” etc…they were soul brothers. Had each other’s backs. It’s a friendship that goes through all the 4 seasons, sometimes in one day as the old song goes. It’s a weather beaten friendship, it’s challenged and it’s often fraught but there is love there. That’s the making of any true connection. They would have taken a bullet for the other person. A strange, paradoxical nature line comes to mind…” I can call you a fuck head but no one else can!! *laugh* It’s that sort of thing”
I just know you are going to have fun with this one. If you could describe the following cast mates with one word – what would it be? Caitriona Balfe-Grafter. Grant O’Rourke-Melancholic. Graham McTavish-Fanny. *laugh* Lotte Verbeek-Exotic. Nell Hudson- Warm. Annette Badland-Sweetheart. Sam Heughan-Tall. Duncan Lacroix –Cunt. *laugh smh*. It seems men do that thing too, well, I do that thing with my friends. Gary Lewis-Socialist. Andrew Gower-Tommy.
Speaking of Andrew Gower’s Tommy reference, this was the short film he starred in, that you wrote and directed called Humpty Fu*king Dumpty . It was funded by a Kickstarter campaign that was very well received. You ended up releasing the film online during the lockdown as special gift to the fans worldwide. We thank you for that, as it was brilliant! What was it about Tommy Quickly that made you want to tell his story in this way? Thank you to the fans first. They allowed us the opportunity to physically make the film. That was a really beautiful thing. Tommy has similar parallels to the Manson story, the only difference being Tommy actually made a few records. Ultimately it’s the story of failure, or of when something doesn’t turn as planned. Every project we under take as actors, walks the fine line between flying or falling flat on your arse. It’s part of the joy of it all for me. Sink or swim mentality. It’s a heat instruction for being in the moment. Tommy had the world at his feet and something never clicked. It’s almost like he was ‘in the wrong place at the right time’. Maybe it was a chemistry thing?… Maybe he wasn’t cut out for show business?…Maybe he just wasn’t good enough? However there were people of less ability, who went on to greater platforms. These things are never black and white. What’s important is to ask the difficult questions without ever expecting any definitive answer.
I am incredibly curious about this production. Could you share with us what went into bringing it to the screen? Passion projects have such rich stories behind the scenes…It started on a late night flight to Morocco. Andrew and I both did a biblical show called AD. It was a chance meeting. We got talking about Tommy and he knew the song written by Lennon/McCartney, “Tip of my Tongue” given to Tommy.
Tommy Quickly had been an impulsive obsession of mine for years, almost like a macabre running joke. I started to formulate an idea for a story, then wrote it. Andrew had to play Tommy. I think for what it’s worth, that it’s his best performance. So brave, so nuisanced, so bold. I wanted an actor I knew I could safely push beyond their comfort zone. There’s not many actors that could do what he did in that role, to be so emotionally naked and available. I deliberately stylised the piece as ‘a mini head movie’. Like we are experiencing the protagonists dilemma, his pain, his point of view. I wanted it to feel like a dream, one foot in reality, the other in the subconscious. See, I told you that I love those fine lines. We are in pre production on a feature film, based around the premise of “Humpty Fu*king Dumpty”. We have a producer and it looks promising so watch this space.
I am always watching this space but now I will now be tuned in on the daily. Of course in this world of covid, I have lots on tune in time. Speaking of which, it has certainly changed many things in our lives. What is it that you miss the most about the world pre-covid? I miss going the shop or to work without having to wear a mask. I miss seeing people’s faces. I miss a more innocent time, even though this whole mess kicked off only 9-10 months ago. I missed picking up my son from school. So many things.
Same…Stephen…Same…We do things to feel, well, normalish. During the lock down you started Radio Roger, little blurbs of hilarity on Sound Cloud that adds a glimmer of laughter and…’man, I KNOW that guy’ moments. *laugh* Is there a plan for Roger … what’s the scoop? Roger radio was done on the spur of the moment. I just record it into my iPhone and play the voices. It’s often unrehearsed and in the moment. I’ve always been fascinated by the people who ring into radio stations. I can’t believe that stupidity can reach such levels. I seriously worry for some callers, for their mental health, their observations etc…but the dark side to my humour thinks it’s hilarious too. Roger is also “Mr. Neutral” which bugs me in away. I know it’s the role of the adjudicator to be an ‘unpartisan’ role but it’s annoying, especially when it’s clear to the audience, what their affiliation is.
It is a relief that you aren’t playing out a segment of your own personality there.*laugh* I think I have a general idea to the answer of this next question but to be honest Stephen, you as a person, are as complex as many of the characters you play. I find you fascinating. I would love for you to tell me what you would say make Stephen Walters tick. Love makes me tick. Life makes me tick.
That might sound simple, but most of us know, the depth of love and the intricacies of life…that’s a whole lot of ticking going on.
Since you are an incredible musician and actor, this question is a must ask, is there a dream biopic about anyone you would love to be in? I am working on a feature length version of the “Charles Manson” short film I made, “I’m Not here”. (as seen above) It would be a different angle to the usual musical biopic. Paying Bob Dylan would be amazing, or Woody Guthrie his genius predecessor. I would love to play Sam Cooke but that might be a stretch too far.
I mean, you are a great actor but I do think the Sam Cooke idea might be pushing the envelope a tad far.*smile* Now, Bob Dylan and Woodie Guthrie – I am paying good money to check those out. As for a feature length of you as Charles Manson in the same vein as I’m Not Here? That is going to be dark and delicious. Riding the same path here, are there any people you have on a ‘bucket list’ to work with in the future? I am working on a project right now that has one of my ‘acting heroes’ in. I can’t say much about it but will do when I can. I don’t believe in heroes if I’m being honest, but there are a rare breed of artists that changed the game of their profession, who made the world sit up, who had a massive ‘impact’ on the senses.
You for one, Stephen, have had an impressive and consistent resume since you began acting. Between music and screen, is there anything else you could imagine doing? Yes! I have started writing/directing and will continue to do so. I have made about 6-7 short films now. Each has been insightful, instructive and just a treat to be honest. I am developing a comedy right now and I have so many stories I want to tell. Writing is something I have secretly been watering, tending to that particular garden, in the safety of my own privacy. So yes, making and creating my own films, forming my own philosophy/perceptions. I also write poetry, I love constructing words. I love writing lyrics to songs. It’s all expression in the end. We come into the world screaming and I want to leave it screaming. * laugh* That scream is a pure expression of ‘I’m here’…it’s a manifestation of something so deep, it’s a longing to connect and be connected too. That’s in each and everyone one of us.
It feels serendipitous to be in the world at the time you are in creation mode. I look forward to the stories you have to tell.
I have probably exhausted you…but I have three more requests. I would like you to give yourself a A) Tagline B) Warning Label C)Theme Song.
A. Ragamuffin from Liverpool. B. Beware the Ragamuffin from Liverpool. C. The singing Ragamuffin from Liverpool.
Put your hands together for the Ragamuffin from Liverpool, bringing you his latest…
As we wrap up this year of complete chaos I must say that custom made Lovelander/Sherry song…was a highlight. I was hoping for a couple highlights this year, thankfully the Universe and you, Stephen came through!
It was such a pleasure getting to know you outside the confines of a character you play. The parallels I see between the childhood you had and the man that you have become are something I believe will stick with me the most. Though rough on the outside, there is a deep meaningful understanding of what is important in this world. It is most certain your Mum, is most proud of you. Putting it as simply as I can, Stephen. Thank you so much for being you. You are welcome. My mum taught me that the most powerful thing to be in this world is to be yourself,
I happily wrap up the last instalment of the LOVELANDER Project for 2020 with pride. What has been a very difficult year, this has been a welcome distraction for me and I do hope, for you as well. If this is your first time reading please see the links below for the other interviews in the project.
Happy Hogmanay/New Year. Take a breath and I will be right here, continuing the LOVELANDER Project until you bore of me…nah…until I bore of myself.
Much Love, The Beav
Sherry
Have you missed Previous editions of – The LOVELANDER Project – Edition 1 Vida/Blancklanderz Edition 2 Erin/Three if By Space CastEdition 3 Vincent/Supporting Artist Edition 4 Tracy/Outcandour CastEdition 5 Nell Hudson/Laoghaire Cast Edition 6 A Quickie w Kikki Fleming/ Lesley Edition 7 Koko/Outlandish Vancouver Cast Edition 8 Paul Gorman/Josiah and Kezzie Beardsley Edition 9 Chas/ Outlandish Scotland Edition 10 Barry Waldo/ Writer, Producer & husband of Jon Gary Steele Outlander Production Designer
ABOotlander LOve – Previous Interviews – Julia LeBlanc/VideoQueen Summer & Ginger from Outlander Podcast CastDr.Joe Abernathy/Wil Johnson CastAdrienne-Marie/Suzette Beth Wesson/@PixieTwit Connie Verzak@ConnieBV Karmen @OutLandAnatomy Jane @RRankinFans CastSera-Lys McArthur /Johiehon CastCarmen Moore /Wahkatiiosta CastKikkiFleming/ Lesley
Many Outlander fans were introduced to Barry Waldo as the proud (yes, handsome) husband of Jon Gary Steele,(referred to as Gary) brilliant production designer of Outlander from seasons 1-5 (amongst many other productions). Barry is an accomplished producer and writer in his own right. Once I found him on social media, I was immediately attracted to his wit, compassion and talent.
Yes, he shared BTS photos and rarely seen JGS sightings in the wild but it was Barry himself and his warmth that kept me and others engaged.
I was quite beside myself that Barry was so receptive to The LOVELANDER Project. I am grateful people can’t see me doing the happy little dance wiggle when people reply positively to my queries. The fact that we he was also massively open and honest with all I asked was a thrill. It is time to grab a lil somethin’ somethin’ and settle in for the Barry -n- Sherry show.
Thank you so much for agreeing to be a part of The LOVELANDER Project. Your twitter and IG presence developed your own fan base in the Outlander world, did you expect that to happen 😊? What a very nice thing to say—no, I didn’t expect it at all. It’s quite hilarious actually. Gary and Terry (Dresbach – Outlander’s former Costume Designer) gave me endless grief for being on social media years before Outlander began— “it’s an invasion of privacy” and “whatever you do, don’t post that photo!” (self-admittedly, I’m a bit of a shutterbug). It’s funny how it all evolved, and although neither of them would admit it, I think they eventually enjoyed it… eventually 😉 It was only in the last year Gary stopped calling it “Tweeter!”
I’ve always been curious about the world, discovering what people are up to, taking travels of the mind, learning about other cultures and traditions. Everything shifted a bit when we moved to Scotland. When you work in entertainment and live in Los Angeles, you feel like you’re in the heart of it all—you hear the gossip, you hear about projects being pitched about town and then one day, boom, you’re in faraway Scotland looking at gorgeous lochs and mountains, trying to figure out exactly what haggis is, trying to hide your LA wardrobe under a foreign object called a raincoat, and concentrating really hard to translate Scottish into English. At the same time, everyone back in the States was asking where we had disappeared to, so I figured why not share it?
I am sure your friends back home were happy you did, I know all of your new friend’s aka, me, were! You grew up in Arkansas, can you tell me a little about your childhood? Wow! This is better than therapy! How much time do you have? Others have accused me of deep diving into their brains before. so you aren’t far off base. I have allll day.
It’s a fish out of water story, really. It’s the complete opposite of my twenty years in Los Angeles. I grew up in the country, riding bikes then motorcycles on dirt roads, camping, hunting and fishing… I must have built a fort in the woods every single week. We ate Mom’s fried chicken and Dad hosted the neighborhood fish fry with hushpuppies and fried okra every weekend. Friday night high school football games, getting bullied in school, ‘goin’ Jeepin’—I mean it’s almost a cliché, right? My first real job was at Showbiz Pizza (now Chuck E. Cheese) during high school and afterwards I went to The University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, the exact same college that Gary attended although we never met or knew each other. To this day, I’m still a massive country music fan. I am forever grateful for the freedom of a small town, southern childhood, and wouldn’t trade it for anything. But I always knew, from the youngest age, I wanted to see more of the world.
It is very apparent that you are a storyteller and a damn good one. What do you think sparked that light in you? When you grow up in a small town in the southern US, it’s just built into you. My parents were big on the philosophy children are to be seen but not heard. If we wanted to hang out with the adults—which we always did— you had to be quiet. My dad is the best storyteller I know. Even when he re-tells a story, there is always a new twist, a detail he simply omitted from the first time. I would listen to all the stories and take it all in. Then we would get bored and go play. The mindset of kids is amazing! We were fearless in designing our own plays, dance routines and poems and couldn’t wait to perform them. How could anyone not love our creations! I think the first story I ever wrote was about a hot dog with a cape that wanted to save the world. As a maturing adult, I forgot that lesson—to be fearless. Things happen, life happens, and I had to focus on responsible things. It never occurred to me that people could make a living telling stories. It was only when I started working at Disney that I realized you could, well not anyone, but if you worked in a certain division, you could. Years later, I went to work for Mattel where there were fewer rules, and I had more freedom. One day a peer who oversaw research walked into my office, showed be a really rough sketch of monster dolls and asked me if I thought I could see, then create, a story from it. That became a world called Monster High. Once the book was released and the very first Nickelodeon special (New Ghoul at School) was aired, I wanted to do more and I haven’t been able to quit doing it since.
I’m not sure if you know but Diana Gabaldon, also had a turn at writing comics for Disney in the 70’s, so there is a connection that you and she share. I am an Eeyore lover, he and I connected in Disneyland 13 years ago 😉. I hear that you and Winnie the Pooh have a special relationship, can you share? Diana has my complete sympathy! Disney is a tough customer when it comes to working with outside creators. I really enjoyed my time there. Yes, I am unapologetically a major Winnie-the-Pooh fan. It was one of the brand portfolios I managed across the globe during my time there. I learned so much from studying A.A. Milne’s journey. I love the entire ensemble of characters—and used to travel and give presentations with my very own Happy Ears Eeyore and Tumble Time Tigger; I championed The Heffalump Movie—it was so exciting to bring the franchise back to the big screen. I own a Happy Ears Eeyore…LOVE him. I might love all 50 of my Eeyore’s. Oh to see one of those presentations!
Years later, it was quite a twist of fate to be back on the lot as a creator pitching Star Darlings, a world that was created with my partners Shana and Ahmet Zappa. Disney eventually acquired it from us. I still love those characters and that world!
It was an incredible story culture, and I can’t say enough about the talented artist and illustrators that I’ve worked with there over the years. I think anyone who has worked for Disney would tell you not to over glamorize it; it is still hard work and has typical corporate politics—don’t expect blue birds to bring you lunch.
Your career was certainly on an uptick when your spouse had this job opportunity that happened to be in Scotland. As a former military spouse, I know that “Let’s do this and support them feeling.” What was like for you? Wow, this really is the best therapy session EVER! And you nailed the feeling which is hard to really understand unless you’ve been through it which you have. Fair to say, I underestimated it.
When Gary, Terry and Ron started working on the pitch lookbook for Outlander, I was working for Coca-Cola on a celebrity partnership and then became the Chief Marketing Officer for will.i.am’s (Black Eyed Peas) company. At first, we didn’t think too much about it—Terry and Gary had a history of crazy shenanigans that, well, over time, I had learned not to ask. One day, he said he was going out to T’s to start thinking about a conceptual lookbook for a possible new series, then poof! Next thing I know, he and Ron were in Scotland doing location scouts!
What most fans don’t realize is how developing a series is like walking on a frozen lake—at any minute it could crack and fall through, the pilot could get green lit or cancelled, or it could be one [season] and done.
So at first we didn’t overthink it—and chalked it up to a great adventure for Gary. He packed a suitcase and went off to Scotland while I continued to work and take care of things at home in Los Angeles. Because will.i.am spends a lot of time in the UK (he is one of the original judges on The Voice UK), I was able to visit the UK frequently. At some point, about midyear 2016, Sony greenlit two additional seasons at once (S3 and S4). At that point, I had been commuting from Los Angeles to Scotland for several years, and I had taken eleven international flights in twelve months so it just wasn’t good for my health—you’re always jet lagged, the weather was often terrible, flights delayed and so on. Don’t forget, the first season was a whopping 16 episodes—a massive number and very unusual‑ so Gary couldn’t really come home or take any time off so it was all up to me to get to him. Not to mention his intense workload, hours and pressure to get that first season perfect; it was all-consuming so we were barely able to fight, er, I mean talk, on the phone once a day 😉 When I would see him, I would be so jet lagged and he would be so exhausted, we would just sleep through the weekend and then I’d have to leave again. It took a heavy toll on us and we had to make a decision: his job or mine. I think I’m oversharing – am I oversharing now? Sorry. Perhaps I should just say “it was the best of times, it was the worst of times” *laughs*
These things are never easy...what tipped you toward Scotland? It wasn’t a black or white decision—financially it made sense for us to do one thing, emotionally his passion for the project and his recognition with the Emmy nomination pointed a different direction. We were loving our time and friends in Scotland, and ultimately decided on adventure over practical matters. Now, all I had to do was reinvent myself.
That is something the ‘spouse that goes’ has to do, reorganize and resettle. It’s tough. marriage is hard work!
Which by the way, congratulations on celebrating 21 years together! The photos of you and JGS really are too much handsome in one place it’s pretty distracting. That is incredibly nice of you to say to two country boys from Arkansas so I will simply say “thank you” and please don’t look too close at those photos.
I’ve zoomed in, I have no idea what you are talking about. Now, you are handsome in 10X zoom but o.k. *smile*
As someone who has been with her partner a long time too, I am curious what you believe are the most important qualities in a partner? This is such an individual thing, but there is one universal truth: saying “I’m sorry” (whether I am or not, and many times I am NOT, but yes, I am very, very sorry!) If you can’t ever admit you’re wrong, or very importantly for us, when you are supposed to be wrong – hint: I am always wrong after his 16 hour workday arm wrestling for every color or construction detail for a set, and he is always wrong after my fifteen hours and two layovers of flying. If you ever hear someone scream “I AM SORRY!” really, really loud at the airport or train station, it’s just us.
That visual, is hilarious. Thank you for sharing it.
Still, you are your husband’s biggest fan, it is not hard to see that the feeling is mutual, of course. I’m going to get nosey and ask how you met.
We met in Los Angeles through a mutual friend. It went something like this – Producer/Writer Friend: “Seen any movies lately?” Me: Yes, I just saw this really disturbing film called American History X *shiver*” Producer/Writer Friend: *screaming across the yard* GARY! Get over here! He just saw your movie!”
Gary was the art director on the movie. I was working for Procter & Gamble and thought all Hollywood jobs were fluff!
See? You can teach an old dog new tricks!
I love it! And you were not so old then, not that you are old now…o.k., changing the subject…
I have learned not to ask for one favourite so if you could give me your top 5 Outlander sets -what would they be, and why? Maybe it’s because we’ve been apart for 6 weeks, or that I’m on an airplane back to the UK right now to rejoin him, but this question has me sobbing (sorry lady sitting next to me‑I’m really going to be OK; thankfully crying is not a symptom of COVID or people would be parachuting out the windows).
You know what? I am his biggest fan—yes as a professional designer but even more so as a human being.
OK! OK! Enough with all that! I’m not crying, you’re crying! On with the show: My Top 5 Outlander sets—wait, only five? I know! I’m horrible!
The Star Chamber: not only is it amazing, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen JGS so excited as when he was building it. God help the man that got in the way of JGS and his Star Chamber!
The Great Hall: No one ever talks about this set but it was magical. The Great Hall was the set playing on one of my first few trips to Scotland. I was allowed to hide up in the rafters, out of the camera’s sight. John Dahl was directing the scene with Jamie agreeing to take the punishment for Laoghaire. The set was full of extras (don’t get me started about Terry and the costume team’s brilliant work. The sheer volume of it! I just wanted to touch everyone—the details were amazing, the volume of work unfathomable). I remember watching the crew lower and then light every candle on all those chandeliers and sconces (those were 100% real candles y’all). It took over 30 minutes to light them all, then raise them on their chains back to ceiling level. I was so scared that if I moved, I would get in trouble so I couldn’t wait for the Director to yell “cut” so I could frantically try to wave the smoke away, and cough! Picturing you doing this makes me giggle and look for you struggling to breathe in the background scenes. Which I know I could never find because this production isn’t going to let that happen but it’s still fun to imagine.
Claire’s Kitchen in the Boston Apartment: The appliances, the colors, the checkered floors—all the details instantly made me what to grab an ice cream soda, play Elvis on the Jukebox, watch I Love Lucy and smoke a cigarette like I didn’t know it caused cancer. It’s times like this when the writer in you just flies out, Barry!
The Parisian Apartment—I would never leave…ever. Comprenez vous?
Totalement! Idem.
Master Raymond’s Apothecary — He had me at “hanging alligator.” Geillis’ attic was a close runner up.
Your work is so filled with cheeky humour, bright characters, and uplifting messages. This is also a large part of your presence on social media. It is a gift you bring to the world. How important is that to you? Life can be hard! On any given day, you can feel a moment of sadness or a tough time that someone in our social media fanmily is going through. I try to remember that lesson from childhood – listen before you talk. I read as many comments and DM’s as possible. Some days, I just want to brighten someone’s day. It means so much when someone actually messages me and says – your post made me smile or got me through a rough day. I try to keep that perspective—most of the time.
It is something more of us could practice. I love your way with words. Which is fantastic segue to mention your book, Anna and the Apocalypse, a great YA read, the concept was born on a train in the UK, is that something you can explain to me? When I first moved to the UK, I still had some work to finish that required me to live in London. I would commute every weekend to Glasgow via train. On one of those crowded train rides, I struck up a conversation with a young Scottish Producer and we chatted for the entire five hours. Toward the end, he mentioned he was producing an independent movie in Glasgow and asked if I would like to come by and meet some of the team. When I asked what it was about, he replied “it’s a high school zombie musical.” I thought this sounds like the worst idea I’d ever heard. He gave me his info and said please come by on Monday. I honestly thought I would never go, but on Monday, I input the address in google maps and, to my shock, their offices were literally twelve doors down from our flat. When I walked in, I saw Dave Frew, one of the post production editors on Outlander. It was an instant short-handed way to verify we were both legit; it reminded me of the benefits and familiarity of being in a smaller city. Then I met more of the team, listened to the rough tracks of the brilliant songs and just sort of fell in love with it, the team and their sincere passion for making the best story possible. It was an earnestness that you don’t see in the Hollywood community—the sheer joy absent all the politics—it was the way content creators were intended to create. Luckily, they invited me to join in.
Months later, we were on set shooting Hollywood Ending, a signature musical number for the film, and I kept thinking the song lyrics are absolutely brilliant story telling. I fell completely in love with the young cast and their characters—a testament to not only the talent but the creator, writers, producers and director. It was the kind of production that would have never happened in the US. It reminded me of being fearless. It was also the complete antithesis of Outlander. If Outlander was Champagne, Anna was that mysterious local homebrew created by the pub owner, and always on special for 99p—absolutely brilliant in its own right. I kept thinking how else can we tell this fun story? What other mediums can we tap into and share its current generational insights? Recall Monster High was introduced to the public by a YA book so I seem to be a magnet for this genre.
I’m attracted to the things that bring me to a place I want to go back to, but to relive them my way. I’m not sure if that is the same for you but you really have that genre, nailed. Any hints on the next book? *innocent eye flutters* Sure – there are four projects I’m juggling at the moment. A terrible way to do it but the imagination wants to go where the imagination wants to go! The first is an adult fiction novel with a rather large ensemble group of characters – not the easiest one to take on when you’re still learning. I’m just about to finish the development edits on it.
The second project is a Children’s Picture Book series. It’s about a young bear that beats to his own drum and wants to discover friendly faces in faraway places—I am completely obsessed with it. It is, by far, my most challenging project.
Then there are two more YA fiction books. The first is still in early draft stage. It is about a protagonist with Asperger Syndrome that discovers an alien species. The second one is a female-empowerment fantasy story along the lines of Monster High and Star Darlings. I am co-writing it with a good friend who is a talented British author.
These all sound intriguing and extremely exciting! I know everyone is going to be looking forward to these coming together. You are most assuredly doing some multitasking. Where do you find is the best place for you to write? What do you find are ideal surroundings for you? Anywhere where Gary is not!
Oh, I’m totally kidding… kind of *wink* I am more productive in the UK than the US, perhaps that is due to having more rainy days in the UK, fewer fires, earthquakes and hurricanes to dodge?
Honestly, I’m constantly on the move so it’s just about making it work. Those five-hour train rides between London and Glasgow were great for writing unless (1) there was a football match and the train was filled with inebriated kilts, or (2) you sit next to a pre-schooler who needs help with her Princess sticker book. Then they are great in an entirely different way. If you don’t make my heart melt with your pictures online, you go and make my heart melt with comments like that.
I love writing in the British Library when it’s not overly crowded. There’s something about sitting in the shadows of towers of books that makes me want to be a better writer. I like to write for a few hours, then relocate and write some more.
You are vocal about the world’s (and your own country’s) current state of affairs. Even when there is clap back that people believe celebrities should keep their opinions to themselves. I personally don’t think our professions in any way dictate our right to an opinion. I am however curious, how this affects you or those you know when you are faced with remarks like this. When you create stories, you think about who are the good women, and who are the bad guys all day long 😉 So is it really any surprise that, in the real world, the people we talk the most about are those that fit into those classifications? Do you really want to read posts about the most average person that did the most average thing?
Celebrities have a whole different thing with which to deal—people want to believe they are actually their characters in real life. When you live in California, you don’t really pay attention to the celebrity thing—they are friends, family, friends of friends and people entitled to opinions just like us. They put their underwear on one leg at a time, they have feelings, they are not the characters you see on screen. I’m not one so you’d have to ask them—but IMO that pressure is a privilege and I think most of the talent I know personally accept it and handle it with great respect. They are human after all.
That same expectation has trickled over into social media. People want to think you are only what you post, and in many ways that’s understandable because it is more like a reality show. It is a privilege to have people follow you— even if there are only five of them and one is my mother, another is Gary and three others are someone’s pets.
Seriously, the world is a big, beautiful diverse place! That’s what I love about it! We are all not the same. So I have to expect, and respect, that my followers are going to be equally diverse. Social media is an amazing place to learn about new things. Gary must send me ten DM’s a day with dreamy cabins, sculptures and fantastic art. As a kid in rural Arkansas, I yearned to know so much more about the bigger, broader world beyond my small town. I see it was a wonderful gift to be able to communicate with so many people around the world with a few simple clicks. Amazing, right? And what is also amazing is CHOICE. With a simple click, we all get to choose to follow or unfollow someone. That is a big truth, we do have the choice and Barry, you happen to be selling yourself short. You are pretty big deal in your own right. Though I sense that isn’t something you take seriously, which is also endearing. What do think is important when interacting with people in the social media age? Now let’s talk about respect. It is the linchpin of any relationship, be it social media or in person. If we can agree to disagree respectfully, we can still be friends. Deal? We don’t have to agree on everything to respect each other, even this poor country boy from rural Arkansas knows that! Even if I didn’t like a friend of my parents, a teacher or the neighbor next door, we still called them Ma’am, Sir, Mr. or Mrs. and we said please and thank you… it’s called respect and hiding behind a social media account doesn’t give you permission to throw it out the door, even if you happen to get elected as the leader of the free world. Which brings me to the ‘current state of affairs’ as you so gracefully called it.
Anyone who ever went to grade school knows a bully when they see one. It’s why the school or office bully in one of the most effective characters and archetypes to include in any movie, series or book. We know them, we see them clearly and we oppose them. Period. Some people are more like the bully’s parent(s)—they are the only ones that seem unaware that the bully is a bully; they are the only ones that chose to not believe the facts that are available to them; they are the ones to explain away terrible acts, give truth to lies and back their bully all the way until that bully raises bullies of his own. I prefer redeemable bullies, ones that eventually learn then evolve and rise to a better humanity. I have little time for the one’s that stay the course their whole lives and then impose it on others.
I like to share my POV, particularly after a pot of good coffee in the morning but I try not to tell other people what to do or what to think. I want people to vote. I don’t need anyone telling me who to vote for, and I don’t expect to tell others. Sharing information is important. Educated voters are SO important. I’ve voted conservative. I’ve voted liberal. When you boil it all down, people vote on the most important issues to them. I vote on the issues that are most important to me. You know who is a good person. You know who is a bad person. Now go vote and own your legacy. But always be open to evolving.
Let’s talk about something lighter now. The joy of…COOKING! (You aren’t the only cheeky one 😉) You and your husband seem to have not only a loving relationship but one that might be just a little competitive, in the kitchen. Has that always been a thing? Gary can cook?
It’s very polite of you to ask about our weight gain in such a nice manner.
Yep, it’s always been a thing. It is one of the main things I missed the most when we were apart in the first few seasons of Outlander. I would bake an entire batch of cookies and then just stare at them wondering how they use to disappear so much faster before he left. Then I would end up eating them all by myself. When I would arrive in Glasgow, he would slip in a comment like “oh, have you been baking cookies?” when what he wanted to tell me it was time to diet. “Oh, have you been drinking with the [fill in cast or crew name here] again?” I would reply. Then we would go home and see who could make the best bread! That’s where our hashtag #KitchenMesswithGaryandBarry started. We needed help judging who was better at what, and to showcase our holiday experiments and competitions and pretty soon everyone joined in.
What would you say your favourite dishes are to cook? I think it’s fair to say we love all food equally. Favorite recipes? Yes, all recipes that involve butter.
Here is a tricky one…who does it better? Gary is a better cook. I am a better baker. He likes to experiment with a smidge of this and “oh, what about some of that.” I like precision. Someone else made the recipe fifty times before publishing it and those measurements are in the recipe for a reason!
I have to admit defeat when his experiments turn out great, although some of the credit I have to give to Terry who told him to do it. I get to claim victory when he tries to experiment with baking as most bakers know, it often goes awry.
It all kind of went to hell when we started living in Europe since we soon exhausted of googling every measurement conversion and just decided to wing it together. I mean come on! What proper butter company does not put those little measurement markers on the wrapper! European butter companies, that’s who!
Oh, I could go on with your kitchen adventures all day but I want to talk about your time in Scotland. You went on many adventures, can you share some of the things that you loved the most about the UK? The great thing about being a newbie was our blissful ignorance to the local geographical politics. But now that I am wiser, I must caution everyone not to mix Scotland with the UK in the same sentence lol. It turns out that the Kingdom is about as “united” as the States these days. *Duly noted- all my friends across the pond please accept my apologies and poutine*
We were typical tourist at first—we preferred scenic Edinburgh, we loved the Fringe Festival and pretty much any castle regardless of its condition. Glasgow, where we lived, took a little longer to figure out, and it is true: the people make Glasgow… we love our Weegies! But the north country! I mean wow! The drive to Skye is so beautiful, the Loch’s so majestic, the Fairy Pools, the Old Man of Storr! I mean if you have to be cold and wet, you better be looking at something spectacular! We did a Burn’s Night on the Isle of Lewis, hung out with native Islanders, and learned how to avoid stepping in sheep poop. Of course, we had to stop every few miles so I could talk to the Highland Coos. But most of all, when I think about all our years in Scotland, I think of being with our mini-melting pot of the most lovely and crazy friends—Irish, American, Scottish, Australian, English, South African—next to a fire, laughing, dancing and drinking.
It sounds like a remarkable time. All good things do come to an end, as we know. What are you looking forward to the most in the next chapter of your adventures? I can’t wait until we can travel again. I can’t wait until some of the most interesting places in the world are safe to visit—we have to get to Egypt.
I can’t wait to get these stories published; hearing from you all what you think about the books, talking about the things that aren’t on the page, doing some virtual book clubs while drinking a great vintage. It’s much harder, and much more work than I ever imagined and the idea that they might not make it out into the world, well, I just refuse to except that will happen so let’s leave it there!
I can’t wait to see Jon Gary Steele accept his Emmy and Oscar. That will be a very good day indeed. We are all with you on THAT one!
Going back to your stories, who would you say are your biggest influences when it came to inspiring you as a writer? Hands down, Jon Gary Steele. Sometimes, when you least expect it, the person you least expect it from, can give you the biggest gift of all. I had a long track record of always taking the safest route, the one that provided the most security, the most peer recognition, the one that I thought other people expected me to take. Gary is the absolutely best at manifesting what he wants and going after it. When he graduated from college, he packed his car and drove to LA to pursue his dream to design. When I graduated from college, I passed the CPA exam, took the best paying job and planned my eventual MBA from The University of Chicago Booth School. No regrets but along the way and later in life, I needed to unlearn in order to learn anew. I needed to give myself permission to be creative. I needed to not be afraid to succeed or, very importantly, fail.
Remember your earlier question about what it was like to give up my career to move to Scotland? Well that was an important moment. Gary knew this desire was brewing and renewing inside of me so when he sensed my hesitation about giving up a more traditional career path, he said, “It’ll be an adventure. You can finally write and develop, and I get to design a historical period drama. We both get to chase our dreams!” Wait… did I say he was the master of manifesting? I probably should have said master of negotiating.
Either way, it’s worked out beautifully for both of you. When we find the partner we want and they turn out to be the partner we needed too, it is a beautiful thing.
And now, more than ever I believe we need inspiration, who inspires you?
Three sources:
1. Brilliant Artist
Fearless and pure of talent, it’s always inspiring to see how they transform their thoughts into a physical manifestation of something that we can all touch and see. Some favorite examples: Javier Marin, an amazing Mexican sculptor; Eugenio Zanetti, a brilliant Argentine painter; Neil Gaiman, a fantastic English storyteller and wordsmith.
2. Teachers!
They opened my eyes to literature, art, stories, cultures, science, humanities and so much more from the very first days of preschool. I am in awe of the effort and knowledge they provide every single day. They taught this small-town boy how to travel in his mind, and pushed me to dream beyond my limited reality realm.
3. Dreamers
The best thing about social media? Discovering other dreamers! It doesn’t matter if you have two followers or two million. A Geocaching Adventurer, a golden-paper-pastel-wielding-portraits sketch artist, an Alpaca wool scarf-maker, a willow sculptor, a cross-stitching master or a fellow tennis fanatic that likes to do a little dance… just to name a few within the Outlander community. Gary and I talk about this often—we often wonder if they know how much they inspire us.
I don’t think many of us realize how we affect others; we are too busy thinking of how others affect us. It only makes sense that our lives touch others in the same ways. Mutual lovefest aside *smile* reading is obviously a passion for most writers and storytellers. What was the last book you read and loved? I’m currently deep in The Sandman novels. Before that, I read Neil Gaiman’s The Graveyard Book which I really loved.
What would you say your top 5 reads of all time were? I’m exempting Outlander books as everyone here already is aware of Diana’s brilliance. I also have to exempt the Hardy Boys, Agatha Christie and Harry Potter —they are series that I would never dare just picking one.
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis
Tie: The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins by Theodor Geisel and In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was my absolute favourite growing up and as I was reading about In the Night Kitchen…I know I have read that, but I was very little. Wow…great list.
I wonder, with your affinity for the YA genre of writing, if you could go back and give advice to your teenage self, what would it be?
Three things:
Not only good advice for a young Barry, but good advice for everyone. There has been such a shift in the world since Covid19, what things do you miss the most from our pre-covid days? I’m a hugger. I like to embrace people I care about. This elbow thing is for the birds! I miss hugging so much (and smiles)!
With that also comes a new normal, what have you embraced post covid?(as far as we have gotten, I mean) From what I see in the communities I’m in, I don’t think “post-covid” exists yet but I don’t see that mini-bottle of sanitizer in my pocket every going away for quite some time. It also causes you to have to think a bit deeper about your friends and family. I have to laugh when someone gets really vocal that we are all over-reacting to wearing a mask, and then a few months later wonder why no one is calling or seeing them. Hello! I love life! I like being healthy! You don’t value life as much as I do—no problem—I wish you all the best.
We appreciate that! And same. Now for some LOVELANDER Project fun– I am going to ask you to give yourself a 1) Tagline 2) Warning label 3) Theme Song.
Tagline: Breathe. Believe. Release. Receive. 👏🎬
Warning Label: Comes with opinions, free-of-charge. Perfect!
Theme Song: What We Live For by American Authors I love this for you!
Now, Barry and I have come up for a little LOVELANDER Project treat for you!
I was so honoured to have Barry and Gary allow me/us into their home for a few questions. I know it took Barry some work to get JGS to participate as he isn’t one for the spotlight. I think what was obvious, Jon Gary Steele, loves his husband and will do anything for him, even if it is making that video for that thing he is doing.
I was right, you know. When I asked Barry to participate in the LOVELANDER Project, I did it because I related to him and thought he was such a delightful person. I didn’t tell him I had a crush on his husband (I even blogged about it in 2016) because that seemed weird. Still is but…I think he might be used to that bit of me now.
Do stay tuned to the ABOotlanders twitter feed for ‘Sherry queries with Barry ‘n Gary.! (Dare ya to say that 10 times fast!).
Stay well, laugh often and BOO!
Sher XO
Have you missed Previous editions of – The LOVELANDER Project – Edition 1 Vida/Blancklanderz Edition 2 Erin/Three if By Space CastEdition 3 Vincent/Supporting Artist Edition 4 Tracy/Outcandour CastEdition 5 Nell Hudson/Laoghaire Cast Edition 6 A Quickie w Kikki Fleming/ Lesley Edition 7 Koko/Outlandish Vancouver Cast Edition 8 Paul Gorman/Josiah and Kezzie Beardsley Edition 9 Chas/ Outlandish Scotland
ABOotlander LOve – Previous Interviews – Julia LeBlanc/VideoQueen Summer & Ginger from Outlander Podcast CastDr.Joe Abernathy/Wil Johnson CastAdrienne-Marie/Suzette Beth Wesson/@PixieTwit Connie Verzak@ConnieBV Karmen @OutLandAnatomy Jane @RRankinFans CastSera-Lys McArthur /Johiehon CastCarmen Moore /Wahkatiiosta CastKikkiFleming/ Lesley
Fan accounts like Outlandish Scotland keep us going through Droughtlander with daily meme postings celebrating birthdays, characters, themes. This account also created the special brand of books to help Outlander fans tour Scotland in all its glory. It might be hard to believe that it isn’t a whole troop of people behind this account, it’s a person. The one responsible for this one is Chas. When I invited her to join the LOVELANDER project I had no idea what to expect. She surprised me.
Chas AKA Charly lives in Nebraskan farm country with her 4 cats (or as she likes Katz), a cottage built 130 yrs ago is their home. On the property she has created a space where her companions can enjoy outside without fear of the coyotes getting after them, with their own Kat Habitat. There is the ‘Big House’, about 100 yrs old, for guests to lay their weary heads. Thus, yes, you can rest assured, Chas’s humble abode is known as the “Little House”.
Chas’s 64 yrs have been full ones. From what she has shared with me, her life has been abundant with adventures of the stage, as an actress. The medical world, as an EMT and Emergency Medicine Consultation for trials. That in itself is exciting stuff. She has given back to those who need some love in their lives by bringing her cats to care homes. Chas has brought her love of fiction to become an author of travel guides based on well loved books. We of course, can not forget the Outlander giver she is today.
I didn’t know too much about Chas before I invited her to be a part of The LOVELANDER Project but like her tour books (which you will hear more about) there is lots to know, let’s get started shall we?
Us fans, all have what I refer to as, our ‘Outlander love story’, what is yours? I discovered the world of Outlander sometime in 1993, when the first 3 novels were available. Of course, I was hooked within a few chapters of the first book. The number of my favourite genres encompassed was a huge attraction for me: romance, science fiction/fantasy, adventure, and history. I think it was Diana Gabaldon’s writing style that most appealed to me. Her characters, situations, reactions and dialogue, were so realistic that it was easy to believe in time travel, easy to believe whatever she wrote. Plus, everything I read just stuck with me. I never tried to “memorize” the history, but I did.
For Instance, in 2003 I was on a bus & boat tour of Loch Ness. It was one of Tony Harmsworth’s original tours, before he founded Inverness Tours http://www.invernesstours.com, the company he sold to Hugh Allison in 2006 and our favourite Outlander tour company. About halfway through the bus bit, the driver/guide began quizzing folks about the Jacobite rebellion and Bonnie Prince Charlie. I’d wait for someone else to provide an answer, which they rarely did, then just before Allison resumed, I’d chime in with the answer. Later she pulled me aside and asked why I was so well-versed in the history of the ’45, and how I’d known that BPC was born (and died) in Rome. She’d never heard of Diana Gabaldon’s Outlander, but I think she might have investigated the novels after the tour. I hope Allison became an Outlanderite! *laugh*
How did you react when you heard Outlander was being made into a TV series? As for my personal reaction to learning about the STARZ TV project: SOOOOOOO happy! Especially when I learned that Ron Moore was at the helm. Having thoroughly appreciated and enjoyed his Battlestar Galactica series, I knew that Outlander was in extremely capable hands. When I learned that Diana Gabaldon would be respected by all involved, and encouraged to participate, I had no worries about the quality of the show.
You have written and published a book about traveling through Scotland and hitting all the Outlander sites. An interesting and entertaining read, btw! Can you share with us how this all came about for you? I came up with the idea of “A Novel Holiday” travel guidebooks sometime around 2008, when I completely retired from Emergency Medicine. I stopped working the streets in 1998, after 18 years as a paramedic, but continued EMS writing & teaching until 2008.
My idea was to create travel guidebooks based on places mentioned in people’s favourite novels and their associated film sites. The plan was for me to start the collection by writing travel guidebooks for MY favourite novels/films, and later encourage OTHERS to write travel guidebooks for THEIR favourite novels/films—also publishing those. http://anovelholiday.com/
As it happens, I wanted my first travel guidebook to be based on Diana Gabaldon’s Scotland! But, there was no movie being planned (only hopeful rumours) … and friends universally badgered me to start with a Harry Potter travel guidebook. So, I did.
After more than three years of research, we managed to find sixty-nine Harry Potter Places in the UK that are associated with the Harry Potter Universe (the Potterverse). Each Harry Potter Places (HPP) travel guidebook provides directions for finding the real-life locations described in JK Rowling’s books, the places where Harry Potter filming took place, and the sites that significantly influenced movie studio set design—real-life sites that look just like what we saw on screen.
The 5-book Harry Potter Places series was finished in August of 2012. Still no Diana Gabaldon movie on the horizon, so I started work on a series of four Tour The Twilight Saga travel guidebooks. Tour The Twilight Saga Book One was published in May of 2014—Book Two was published in July of 2015.
Oh, how I wanted to stop working on that first TTTS book the moment I learned about the STARZ TV Outlander series, and knew I’d finally be able to do my Outlandish Scotland Journey travel guidebook! But, I’d committed to doing the TTTS series and felt I had to see it through.
When sales of TTTS Book One were so very poor, however, I stopped the project after finishing Book Two and dove into Outlandish Scotland Journey!
I spent more than 3 ½ years researching the Outlandish Scottish locations associated with the first 3 novels, and first 4 seasons of the TV show. While doing so, I met loads and loads of lovely Scots. Although I visited many of the Outlander locations during my previous travels to Scotland, I hadn’t been researching Outlander when there, and didn’t have the money to visit again. Thus, I relied heavily on Internet research. When I couldn’t find the answers I needed on the Internet, I’d find someone associated with the location to contact and ask for help, via email and occasionally, phone calls. I cannot remember a single instance of a Scot refusing to assist me and my project. In fact, many went out of their way to provide me with information and photos.
That is a helluva lot of work that has went into these ventures for you. Being able to plan a trip so thoroughly and have it ready to go, I know I am anxiously waiting for my trip with my sister and our hubbies. Your book is going to help us immensely in our planning. It’s a shame we have so much time to plan *shaking my fist at the covid virus*…but I know it will be worth it!
Another thing you have become known for in the fandom is your injection of daily memes collected from around the fandom – generally with a theme for the day. How did you come up with this? It really must be time consuming. I am not Social Media savvy. I still don’t have a smart phone! I knew that I’d have to do Social Media to market my travel guidebooks, but didn’t have a clue what to tweet or post on Facebook. Then, a good friend gave me a 2012 Harry Potter Daily Calendar for Christmas. Bless her! I realized I could scan and post the Harry Potter Daily Calendar on my Harry Potter Places Twitter and Facebook accounts. The daily calendar scan and a few Harry Potter birthday memes are all I’ve ever posted on those accounts.
In January of 2016, when I set up the Outlandish Scotland Journey Twitter and FB accounts I had the Outlander Daily Calendar, but I wanted to offer more. I started collecting and rerunning Outlander memes created and posted by others.
Each day I rerun at least five memes based on the Daily Calendar’s pic or quote subject or, based on the day’s Outlander-related BIRTHDAY.
I have researched and created files/folders for many, many Outlander characters and the actors/actresses who played them on TV. Obviously, every season requires additional research and creation of additional files/folders. The biggest difficulty related to the birthday project: some actors don’t want to divulge their damn birth date, even when the year isn’t required! Hello, @GrantORourke!. At his request, I simply picked a Grant O’Rourke Appreciation Day: July 19th.
Even if I were half as clever and talented as Outlander meme artists such as @LaughOutLander, @Gracesmom48 , @OutmanderArtist, @CatsAndKilts, @sniskybobfry, and oh, I dunno @ABOotlanders, I couldn’t possibly create five Outlander memes each day. That’s why I am so dependent on rerunning the work of other Outlanderite artists.
I have over 120 subject subfolders. They range from “Adso,” “Angus Rupert Ross Willie,” “Animals Frasers Ridge” to “William S3,” “William S4,” “Willoughby,” “Wool Waulking,” & “Young Ian.”
On days when there’s not a birthday, I determine the day’s rerun “theme” based on its Outlander Daily Calendar pic or quote. Then, I go to that subject’s subfolder to find 5 reruns to post. If there aren’t enough reruns available, or *GASP* there isn’t a subfolder for that subject, I make one or more new memes to post.
And, that’s about it! It’s a ton o’ work, but I enjoy doing it.
I’d say it is a tonne of work, that’s a lot of dedication to the fandom. I know that some of this is wanting to sell your guide books, of course. Let’s hope this exposure helps some. What other reasons do you put so much time and effort into your social media presence? Which I know are appreciated. Even though my travel guidebooks aren’t selling well, yet, I enjoy having a presence in Outlander’s Twitterverse and on Facebook. In my mind, I am offering Outlanderites at least six moments of entertainment each day. I think that is important, especially during the abominable Reign of tRUMP and the current pandemic! And, I will continue to do so until I am physically incapable of working at my computer.
I truly admire that, Chas. I am grateful for fans like you, as a fan. I always look forward to your posts. Plus, it is nice to recommend you to new peeps in the fandom. What advice to have for them? I still consider myself non-savvy when it comes to Social Media, so I don’t know how important my advice might be. But, here are the tips I live by.
Follow Outlanderites who post things that make you happy … things that pique your interest … things that warm your heart.
Participate! Post things on YOUR account that would make other Outlanderites happy … pique their interest … warm their hearts.
Happily, I’ve not been the target of Twitter Trolls. *Knocking on my forehead – aka on wood* But, I have a response plan: If some unknown person, for some unknown reason, criticises your contribution or says something unkind about you, BLOCK THAT PERSON’S ASS. Do not reply! Do not ENGAGE with the scumbag! And, no matter what, you must never, ever take ANY negative comments posted by some unknown scumbag seriously!
Lastly: In my opinion, there is no good reason to be critical of the Outlander STARZ TV series, especially when it comes to the TV show’s occasional deviation from the books. If they deviated, they had DG’s blessing to do so; just go with it. Actually, I enjoy the deviations! It would be extraordinarily boring to always know what was going to happen. ERMAHGERD! That episode 411 cold open with Roger in the shower?! What a gasp-worthy WTF moment, I loved it!
Bottom Line: The Outlanderverse is here to be ENJOYED! So, enjoy it, in all its glory!
That is one of my views as well. I do enjoy listening to others takes, however, my sanity demands I stay in this lane. *laugh* It’s something I enjoy about interviewing fan accounts, and for those reading, you can go back and read for yourselves. We all look at it differently and can respect those views. It’s the cool thing about being adulty(ish).
For us fans, we all have our hopes of where the show will head…what is yours? All I can say is that STARZ and Tall Ships Productions (et al) damn-well better keep it going until ALL the books have been brought to the screen. That includes Book 10, which has yet to be written.
We know this is going to be one helluva long Droughtlander, what is your advice to survive, for all these wonderful people reading this?
Tip #1A: If you’ve never read the novels, READ THEM! They are extraordinary. Yes. The TV series has done a wonderful job of bringing the best bitz of Diana Gabaldon’s world to life. But, you are missing at least 75% of the Outlandish Wonders available in the novels.
Tip #1B: If you’ve read the novels but haven’t re-read them recently, you need to at least re-read #7 & #8 before #9 is released.
Tip #2: I’ve gotta say it—Read Outlandish Scotland Journey! Even if you don’t know when you’ll be able to visit Scotland, take this time to begin learning about the Outlandish places in Scotland, and to compile a list of places to see, things to do. You can start by taking a look at the FREE Book Samples available on the website. There also are several FREE “Outlandish Scotland Extras” available there. Go to our website and play before having to spend a cent. http://outlandishscotland.com/
You do a lot of giving back, it seems to be in your nature. Tell us about your Kat Pat parties that you do. My favourite hobby is taking the cats (2 at a time) to visit residents at a local nursing home, Lancaster Rehabilitation Center (LRC). These poor people are living my nightmare: being separated from my cats. I started taking cats to visit 2 or 3 times a month in 2003—17 years ago. In 2014 it became a weekly visit! Sadly, due to the Covid 19 pandemic, we’ve not been allowed to visit since mid-February. I miss my Kat Pat Party Peeps!
This shows just how giving Chas is, no matter what community she becomes involved in. For all she has done in ours, and others. Giving her Outlandish Scotland twitter account a follow is worth your time, purchasing the Outlandish Scotland travel book is a fab gift for any Outlander fan. Christmas is only 10 weeks away…just saying!
Thank you Chas for letting us get to know you better. It is my wish that some fans out there that weren’t sure who was behind the account, feel they now do and maybe there are new connections made.
I hope you all are staying sane(ish) and well(ish) during this droughtlander and covid-19 world. I am trying to add my little bit of light with #TheLOVELANDERProject, if you haven’t read all the installments yet, you can find the links at the end of this post.
You can look forward to the next edition on Oct 31st. I’m not going to tell you who but I will give you a hint – nah – I can’t anything I say will give him away. *oops*
Sherry AKA Sher…AKA ‘The Beav’
Have you missed Previous editions of – The LOVELANDER Project – Edition 1 Vida/Blancklanderz Edition 2 Erin/Three if By Space CastEdition 3 Vincent/Supporting Artist Edition 4 Tracy/Outcandour CastEdition 5 Nell Hudson/Laoghaire Cast Edition 6 A Quickie w Kikki Fleming/ Lesley Edition 7 Koko/Outlandish Vancouver Cast Edition 8 Paul Gorman/Josiah and Kezzie Beardsley
ABOotlander LOve – Previous Interviews – Julia LeBlanc/VideoQueen Summer & Ginger from Outlander Podcast CastDr.Joe Abernathy/Wil Johnson CastAdrienne-Marie/Suzette Beth Wesson/@PixieTwit Connie Verzak@ConnieBV Karmen @OutLandAnatomy Jane @RRankinFans CastSera-Lys McArthur /Johiehon CastCarmen Moore /Wahkatiiosta CastKikkiFleming/ Lesley
When you have sisters...You have Sissues!
Overthinking Outlander for the masses
Black peole who love intellectual entertainment! Tous Sont Acceptées!
One lassie's views on everything Outlander
Proudly Canadian Outlander FanGroup based in Alberta
ABOotlanders w/Sherry 
